Final Fantasy Sexism Part I: Why It Matters

[Miriel]

If she is in fact killing puppies, I'd be the first to line up with pitchforks.

This is the comment she made in September in regards to another attack on her via 4chan:

...the questions you had regarding release dates and extra funding were specifically answered in update #8. Please understand that I get asked the same questions dozens of times and so I try to respond to those questions collectively in my updates (again see update #8). When I have more details ready to share, the backers will be the first to know...

...I know it might be hard for you to accept but I'm doing this project out of love for gaming as a medium and a strong desire to see games and the industry realize their amazing potential. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to work, these video games aren't going to play themselves.

So, yeah. Totally just taking the money and running, right? Right?

Sorry about derailing the thread. :o But specifically when I see women who can't stand in solidarity with another woman in the face of such horrid misogyny, it actually makes me really sad. I realize it's holding women to a higher standard than men, but it makes me want to sit down with you and plead, please please please don't be that kind of girl. You don't have to agree with her, but at least support her as another female who did not and continues not to deserve the horrible sexist attacks aimed at her. I believe that there is sexism in gaming, but even if you don't, the reaction to Anita pointing out sexism in gaming unequivocally proves sexism within the gaming community.

[Quindiana Jones]

What if they were misogynistic puppies?

[Dr. rydrum2112]

this isn't derailing the thread. The whole idea of these threads is to get into topics like this, who cares if it is a slight deviation from the exact thread starter?

[Del Murder]

Good article. I look forward to the exploration of the specific games.

[Raistlin]

I have not kept updated with the Sarkeesian case. I know the general story and the backlash against her. For the sake of argument, I'll accept maybee's accusation that she's a lying, douchebag scam artist.

In no way, shape, or form, does that adequately address the vicious attacks against her, which started coming her way even before any funding controversy, just in response to her campaign (from what I heard; again, I have not been following closely and may not have the most accurate info). You can disagree with someone's argument without resorting to harassment, and the harassment she started facing was clearly and obviously not only a emotional response from a still largely patriarchal culture, but a response to the arguer's (Sarkeesian's) sex. I want to address the xkcd comic I posted in this article: when a woman does something, her entire sex is judged, not just her. Based on these sexist prejudices, it's easy to dismiss a woman's complaint about sexism as just another "feminazi." And regardless of the circumstances, a woman's sexuality is almost always made relevant by men. How often have you glanced at the comments of some article that has a picture of a woman in it -- say, a female scientists in a lab coat -- and saw a variety of discussion regarding who would and would not "hit that"? Boy, if you think video games are sexist, they have nothing on the internet.

I'm starting to ramble a bit here, but I think it's clear that she would have been dealt with entirely differently presenting the same argument under the same circumstances if she was a man. And that is a problem, above and beyond the substance of her argument.

When you are attacking a beloved fandom where beloved characters are involved eg- Princess Peach, Lara Croft. You are going to tick people off and make them mad. Anita should of known what she was heading into.

I uh... really? Yes, maybe she should have known teenage, predominately male gamers are immature assholes who will willingly threaten and harass women they don't like. That in no way excuses their conduct.

And so because I'm criticizing Tifa Lockhart, and drawing a comparison to Lara Croft in that context, does that mean I can expect a severe backlash as well?

You are lying to yourself if you believe that the money or production delay was the reason why you, or others hated her.

This is probably the only thing Miriel's said here that I take serious issue with. I don't see any reason here to attribute a bad motive to maybee personally, and I'm sure they could be some people out there who really do just dislike her for the delay and perceived dishonesty. I do, however, feel comfortable saying that that was not the impetus for the backlash against her.

For the record, I have yet to see any persuasive evidence that she is actually running off with anyone's money. I think, based on what is available, that that story was largely fabricated based on a disagreement with her message. I don't think people would have jumped so soon to "oh now she's running off with everyone's money" had it been for a project they agree with.

[Quindiana Jones]

smurfyouraistyourastupidpaedoifyoudontlikelaracroftstitsyouaregaysmurfingfaggotgokillyourself

[maybee]

If you seriously can't see the sexism issues with Princess Peach... I don't even know.

Do you realize that Peach is one of the most powerful fighters within Brawl right ? Peach is a old character made when gaming was still really new, but Nintendo are starting to improve her- even giving her, her own game as the hero and saving the men instead of the other way around. They are starting to take the right step forward.

She wasn't attacking the gaming industry, just like Raistlin isn't attacking Final Fantasy. You can look at something intelligently and say, "Hey, look at these issues of sex/race/violence/etc within this game" and still like the game.

I didn't say that she was. I said that she was attacking people's beloved favourite characters, which pisses people off.

You said she deserved *all* the bullying she received. The death threats were part of that, which was why I found your comment so disturbing.

There's a difference between bullying and being a right disturbing creep. Bullying/ Death threats are totally different.

Well I found your comment insulting, judgemental, hurtful and rude saying that I was so disturbing and that I was disturbing the peace within these lovely forums.

Can you clarify, why exactly it's bulltrout? She did handle the abuse remarkably well. And she did get what someone else aptly described as a scorched earth campaign. I don't think I have ever seen anything like it on the internet. It was incredible in it's hatefulness. I think this was a unique opportunity for anybody to take a look at the situation and talk about it.

Because she went on to 4chan and trolled the boards. She wanted some of the trouble so she could use the trolling in her favour. She actually downright trolled the boards which are infamous for trolling, so she could play the victim card and she's pulled it off well. When you go and poke the wasp's nest on purpose then it's hard for some people to have respect for you.

She was threatened with death, rape and violence. Do you get that?

Again bullying/ being a disgusting creep = totally different.

Bullying = being a assface/ troll.

Do you understand that there was a video game created where you can "beat the bitch up"?

Yes I do and with the hate and anger she caused I'm not surprised.

That there were attempts to distribute her home address and phone number. And you think that her talking about this kind of abuse is a pity party?

The way she has tricked people into giving her cash- enough to buy a house, the way she trolled 4chan so she'll grab more haters and more attention towards her being attacked, says yeah. Pity Party to the max.

I am so glad she is talking about this, shedding light on this ugly dark side of the internet and of the gaming community. How can you view her talk on Tedx and not be disgusted on her behalf? I just can't even comprehend.

You do realize that tons and tons of people get abused and bullied and teased and even commit suicide because of net bullying and trolling each day right ? These people are innocent and have done nothing wrong. It's really sad and tragic, and I have been bullied online alot. This girl however went looking for trouble on 4chan.

You know this... how?

Because it's been about seven months now. It's been ages and nothing.

This takes time. My videographer for my wedding quoted me with a timeline of 8 MONTHS for one video. Anita is make 5+ videos. Her biggest mistake is that she probably took on more than she could handle and wasn't as up front about the progress as she should be. But I'm not mad at that. I miss deadlines at times too. All eyes are on her, do you really think that she would be giving herself more media exposure while simultaneously expecting to run off with the money?

Yeah but have much money did you have ? Assuming that you didn't have the cash that she has right now. And she's meant to be this girl that has been gaming since she was ten. You'll think that her knowledge would help things go faster. It just feels like a huge fib.

The hate towards her began before her kickstarter campaign even ended. You are lying to yourself if you believe that the money or production delay was the reason why you, or others hated her.

No people dislike her for many, many different reasons. The reasons why I dislike her is because her project seems fishy and she's so sexist towards males in her videos. So it's okay to say that a love song if sang by a male makes him a stalker ? Saying that male gamers are 30 years old and living in their male basements ?

Double standards.

Her timeline for the video was late fall or early winter. Did you or others wait until early winter to start hating her? Did you wait 6 months and then decide, "hey, it's so terrible that she's late on the project, she is a horrible person and deserves bullying!" I somehow doubt it.

No. Again there is different reasons why both males AND females like myself can't stand her. Yes those who said the rape comments and death threats are low, going too far and disgusting. But if somebody trolls her and bullies her ( and I mean bullying as in not the death threats included ) I'm not going to feel sorry for the girl.

She didn't manipulate anyone. .

You believe that she hasn't manipulated anybody, but I believe that she has manipulated tons and not just with the sexism in video gaming project.

[maybee]

And apparently a research project the scope of 150k needs to be finished within 5 measly months or you're a con artist. Wtf people!

It's been seven months not five.

Those who are mad with me, please watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2sNUhskwlI

[Quindiana Jones]

I can understand focussing the topic of a discussion when you don't have access to a large amount of money. So her original Tropes vs Women idea seemed fine to me with her limited resources. She was just pointing out one thing at a time. I will be disappointed and smurfing pissed if, now that she has considerable funds, she doesn't make a full Tropes vs series, regarding all/most of the stereotypes surrounding gaming and other mediums. Media. Bloody Latin. Hell, even better would be if she spent the minimum amount of money on the series and instead put the money to a more practical use. Discussion is an excellent place to start something, but she's well passed that now. It's already been started, even without the series, so the money she's raised could be put to a much better use. Maybe that's just me; I prefer the idea of saving one person than publicising the struggles of one hundred.

Having said that, she constantly gives off the vibe - by her words and actions and general demeanour - that she only started the project in the first place because "feminism is popular" and "gaming is popular" so combining the two is the fast track to fame. I can't stand people like that, despite the fact that I think the project is a good idea.

That video was quite silly. The guy would drive sensibly towards an excellent point, then veer off into the bushes of irrelevance before he reached the... uh, the T-junction of reason.

[Miriel]

You know, I am so so tempted to just let this go. Really. Despite whatever you might think maybee, I'm not trying to be "rude" in my responses to you. I literally look at your posts and feel exhausted. The sheer weight of the internalized sexism is too much some times. It just makes me weary and disappointed.

But I'll give this one more go, on the off chance that you might be able to see a different perspective on this.

Do you realize that Peach is one of the most powerful fighters within Brawl right ? Peach is a old character made when gaming was still really new, but Nintendo are starting to improve her- even giving her, her own game as the hero and saving the men instead of the other way around. They are starting to take the right step forward.

You are absolutely right that Nintendo has been improving Princess Peach. But why? Why are they improving her? Do you think the change is happening in a vacuum? No, it's because people spoke out about disliking how much of a damsel in distress she was all the time. It's because they realized that maybe people would enjoy having a female character who is more than a trophy given to the male protagonist as a prize. This is what it means to critically analyze sexism in video games. To look at the issues, history, foundation and then see where there can be improvements. And in this case, Nintendo is making improvements. But that doesn't mean that they can't make more improvements or that it's somehow wrong to look at the evolution of Princess Peach and see the issues of sexism within it.

I didn't say that she was. I said that she was attacking people's beloved favourite characters, which pisses people off.

But, that's exactly what you did say. And what you're continuing to say. I have to state it again, she is not "attacking" anything. She is critiquing it. You have to understand the difference.

There's a difference between bullying and being a right disturbing creep. Bullying/ Death threats are totally different.

Definition of bullying via Wiki: Bullying is the use of force or coercion to abuse or intimidate others. The behavior can be habitual and involve an imbalance of social or physical power. It can include verbal harassment or threat, physical assault or coercion and may be directed repeatedly towards particular victims, perhaps on grounds of race, religion, gender, sexuality, or ability.

Bullying consists of three basic types of abuse – emotional, verbal, and physical. It typically involves subtle methods of coercion such as intimidation.

Threats of death, rape, and violence are all part of bullying. I'm really surprised that you're trying to separate the most heinous aspects of the abuse thrown at Anita as not being bullying.

Do you understand that there was a video game created where you can "beat the bitch up"?

Yes I do and with the hate and anger she caused I'm not surprised.

You're not surprised. Ok. Does that mean you're ok with it? Or you're surprised but still think it's totally and completely messed up and disgusting? I hope it's the latter. But really, this one comment made me just sit and blank out for a bit because I can't comprehend any woman (or man for that matter) who would see something like that and their response is just that it doesn't surprise them.

I don't believe you're actually looking at the real issue here. Which I think is, why did it make so many people so angry that she would want to analyze sexism in video games. Is it because people don't believe there is sexism in video games? Is it because it was a woman who asked the question? Is it because she asked it in the wrong way? And if it's any of these things, why was the reaction SO strong? Why didn't people just say, "You suck and I won't donate or watch your videos" but instead harass her, try to hack into her personal accounts, get her kickstarter shut down, put her face on pornographic images. Why was the reaction so harsh?

If you believe Anita was a scammer, then forget about her. Go back to the original question, do video games have sexist representations of women? If yes, what are those representations, how does it manifest itself, what can be done about it, should anything be done about it? If no, why do you believe there isn't any sexism? Why do you think other people believe that there are sexist elements? Do you think there shouldn't be a push toward more fully developed and less stereotypical female roles in video games? What do you think of games that try and innovate new roles for women? Is that a bad thing? Were things fine as they were?

These are the questions I believe you're avoiding.

You do realize that tons and tons of people get abused and bullied and teased and even commit suicide because of net bullying and trolling each day right ? These people are innocent and have done nothing wrong. It's really sad and tragic, and I have been bullied online alot. This girl however went looking for trouble on 4chan.

Could you please provide links to this? I don't believe I've heard anywhere that she went trolling on 4chan. The best I could find after a few minutes of googling was that someone posted her videos onto 4chan and some people think it might have been her posting?

Because it's been about seven months now. It's been ages and nothing.

Except that she has been updating her backers on Kickstarter. Are you one of the backers? Are you upset that the money you donated doesn't seem to be resulting in a product? Or if you're not a backer, do you know a backer who is upset? Or are all the people who are upset people who DIDN'T actually donate money?

No people dislike her for many, many different reasons. The reasons why I dislike her is because her project seems fishy and she's so sexist towards males in her videos. So it's okay to say that a love song if sang by a male makes him a stalker ? Saying that male gamers are 30 years old and living in their male basements ?

So you have less of a problem with the huuuuge amount of sexism toward her, than the small amount of sexism from Anita toward males? Don't want to put words in your mouth, but just from your posts, this is the conclusion I'm drawing. But if you disagree with her actual comments and beliefs, that's your opinion. And like I said before, I don't agree with everything she says. Some times when you're an activist in whatever industry, you start seeing instances of sexism/racism/etc everywhere. But I would hope that you would be able to differentiate between the legitimate criticisms she has (and many of her points ARE legitimate) and the ones that you don't think are accurate or correct or fair.

You believe that she hasn't manipulated anybody, but I believe that she has manipulated tons and not just with the sexism in video gaming project.

Again, I'd like like to point out that I have yet to see an actual kickstarter backer who supported her in the beginning (and not just a troll who donated to kickstater just to get access to the private backers information) who is speaking out about feeling manipulated or tricked into donating money.

And that's it. I'm not doing any more back and forth about Anita. I would just say that I hope people are able to look at the Anita situation and clearly see the real issues of sexism that the whole thing illustrated without resorting to excuses about why or how she deserved what happened.

[maybee]

You know, I am so so tempted to just let this go. Really. Despite whatever you might think maybee, I'm not trying to be "rude" in my responses to you.

Well I feel very very hurt by what you've said. I've only just started posting on these forums and getting to know the community and the members here and all of a sudden I'm this horrible, ugly person who is disturbing the peace and these forums.

When I said bullying. I didn't not mean the death threats, the bashing game, the stalking and turning her wiki into pornographic pictures of her. I'm sorry if you thought and assumed that, but I didn't.

I believe that there is a huge difference between creepy criminal behaviour and just being a total assface. So when I meant "bullying " I didn't mean those things.

We are derailing somebody else's thread, so if you have any more issues about me please go and PM it. And we can talk about " How I'm destroying everything " there.

[Quindiana Jones]

Post without motive.

[Jinx]

You know, I am so so tempted to just let this go. Really. Despite whatever you might think maybee, I'm not trying to be "rude" in my responses to you.

Well I feel very very hurt by what you've said. I've only just started posting on these forums and getting to know the community and the members here and all of a sudden I'm this horrible, ugly person who is disturbing the peace and these forums.

When I said bullying. I didn't not mean the death threats, the bashing game, the stalking and turning her wiki into pornographic pictures of her. I'm sorry if you thought and assumed that, but I didn't.

I believe that there is a huge difference between creepy criminal behaviour and just being a total assface. So when I meant "bullying " I didn't mean those things.

We are derailing somebody else's thread, so if you have any more issues about me please go and PM it. And we can talk about " How I'm destroying everything " there.

I think you're taking this a little too far. Miriel never said you were horrible, ugly, or destroying everything.

[maybee]

I think you're taking this a little too far. Miriel never said you were horrible, ugly, or destroying everything.

She said what I said about Anita was one of the most disturbing things on this forum when I didn't mean the death threats or the disgusting rape comments.

I'm not OK with the " smack the bitch up " game either; I just said that I wasn't surprised that it occurred since Anita has this magical way of pissing people off so much-( male & female ) and she went looking for more haters in the 4chan board which are infamous for trolling.

It's like if somebody went into a Mario Forum and said that " Mario sucks, and you fail for playing the Mario games " and then came crying to you guys here because they said nasty things they said. I doubt that you'll feel sorry for that person.

[Quindiana Jones]

Miriel isn't telepathic, maybee.