Congratulations, Raistlin! You now know a tiny sliver of a fraction of how Anita Sarkeesian feels, a woman who was attacked, abused, and the subject of an internet hate campaign for merely suggesting that sexism/feminism should be talked about in reference to video games and before she had even said anything substantive about it!Originally Posted by Raistlin
Also, I'm really excited for the rest of this article series. Looking forward to it!
and @Axem
I have not seen any criticism in the comments. I simply pointed out that people often judge things on an absolute scale, and this is not always fair. And Kotora points out a similar aspect in terms of culture. And I should also say that I think its a good idea this is talked about.
As for the cultural influence: I guess from my point of view, stating a role or character trait is sexist because it is traditionally affiliated with one sex does not mean it is. [Clearly, I am not talking about the obvious a la female super hero outfits]. I am a feminist, but I am also a scientist and the truth matters to me. To say that a portraying females as more nurturing is sexist because it is due to culture is bs. Women are on average more nurturing than men (to lazy to find the Buss citation). So I will be interested in how you will discuss sexist stereotypical gender roles, and am sure you will do a good job.
As for the science thing, it is a shame there is not more women in the field and I wish more women were pushed in that direction (in my graduate experience I would say that the 3 smartest students I knew were all female), but that doesn't mean that devoid of cultural influence scientists would be 50% male and 50%. And I don't really see anything wrong with that, as long as people get a fair chance at doing what they want.
So bottom line- I was not criticizing you, or what you are going to write about - just offering an opinion on comparisons.
Last edited by Dr. rydrum2112; 01-08-2013 at 02:07 AM. Reason: added last line.
Master of the Fork
Cid's Knight
You mean the same woman who took kickstarter donations and never applied it to anything or has anything to show from it but is now making a living off of how "attacked by sexist trolls" she was by going to various places and "talking" about? Please, as a woman, Anita Sarkeesian can shove it. You can't say "i'ma make this!" then not make it and just live off the royalties of getting bullied. Sure you got bullied, whoopdie do. It is a problem, it is an issue but finish what the ef you said you would do. It was June when the kickstarter ended JUNE. It's a whole new year and you have nothing to show for it but TEDx talks and the like about how bullied you were over the project/ (which tedx isn't even TED, it's privately funded stuff so it's really not even worth much as TED doesn't directly support it. Anyone can host a TEDx talk) argh. Stop talking about how bullied you were and work on your damn project. That woman. /rant over
Fun fact: Freya does not like Anita Sarkeesian
Raistlin, will you be discussing the socio-political history of Japan, and how its neighbouring countries - in particular, China - may have effected its development in that regard? Any word on whether you'll be looking into the effects American brutality during the aftermath of WW2 may have had some effect on Japanese gaming development? Do you think if Subotai, Khan's greatest general, had marched east towards Japan, that would have stifled or accelerated the gaming industry's progress?
what about Sherman's march to the sea?
Not relevant. Nobody named Sherman could ever have an effect on women.
I agree with this, and it is something I have planned on addressing. Having one particular woman being a weak healer, by itself, is nothing. In fact, I don't think Vanille's role in FFXIII is very sexist at all. The problem is not one instance, but using women almost exclusively in gender-stereotyped roles -- which is sexist because male characters have traditionally not been so limited.
This is true, but that doesn't mean that all women are automatically "made" that way and that such a perception is beyond criticism; they are affected by the gender stereotypes and prejudices of their culture. Just because something's a fairly accurate representation of the mean does not mean we must be content with that mean and society as-is.To say that a portraying females as more nurturing is sexist because it is due to culture is bs. Women are on average more nurturing than men (to lazy to find the Buss citation).
I've tentatively renamed the second entry in this series to "Final Fantasy Sexism: smurf it, let's talk about Japanese history and how it developed over the centuries to what it is today, how that history impacted the that culture's view of women, how that culture has impacted the development of the video game industry, and how that industry has impacted the Final Fantasy series, part 2 of 8000."
* Raises hand *
Yes I'm another woman who loathes Anita Sarkeesian.
She's nothing but a con-artist. She asked for a few thousand dollars for a project to study sexism in gaming and she gained enough money to buy a house, a about $ 150,000.
Where is the project ? Nowhere.
Where is Anita ? She's disappeared from the inter-webs minus her TEDX talks which are pity parties.
And even if she's not a con-artist her so called " sexist rants " were epic fail. Her creepy/sexist xmas songs video comes to mind. She says that " All I want for xmas is you " is sexist towards females because, the song is all about wanting a man for Christmas and it would be better to sing a song about family or sharing and then she goes that she wants a Buffy the Vampire set for Christmas.
Rrrright. So wanting a BF is wrong, but wanting a selfish gift for yourself is not ?
The girl deserved every trolling and Internet bullying that she got.
This is quite possibly one of the most disturbing things I've seen on EoFF. Like, it is legit scary to see this kind of thinking here in our nice little corner of the internet. No, she did not deserve the absolutely heinous misogyny and harassment from thousands, some of which were violent in nature that was directed toward her. She did not deserve DEATH THREATS. And whether or not she'll follow through on her kickstarter project is one thing, the fact that the harassment came as an immediate reaction to the project itself, and not whether she took the money and ran, is the real issue. And you do realize how kickstarter works, right? It's based on DONATION. No one is putting a gun to anyone's head to force you to donate. She got a lot of people to donate. So smurfing what?The girl deserved every trolling and Internet bullying that she got.
To act like the lack of project updates is the reason behind the misogyny and vitriol directed toward her is deluded and disingenuous. It's bad when it comes from guys, worse still when it comes from other women. Ugh.
She SHOULD talk about the absolutely insane and over the top sexist reaction she received because that's part of her job description. She's a feminist media critic. She should talk about it, she she bring attention to it, and maybe the discourse will help better the situation so that the next time someone dares to bring up sexism inherent in video games, the reaction won't be quite so idiotic.
This is going way off topic.
I think this series by Raistlin is brilliantly written which I think is the first nice thing I've said about Raistlin ever. But I do believe that if a female had posted it, it would be taken in a different, "serious business feminist" sort of way. Which is part of the problem now, isn't it?
Last edited by Miriel; 01-09-2013 at 09:10 AM.
Oh my god.
/headesk
When you are attacking a beloved fandom where beloved characters are involved eg- Princess Peach, Lara Croft. You are going to tick people off and make them mad. Anita should of known what she was heading into. Even females dislike her and she was supposed to be "fighting " for their gender.
I didn't say that she deserved the death threats, so calm down and take your chill pills.
No her TedX talks are always about "how hard down by she was and how she's defended a ton of trolls and how she's like this big massive hero of the Internet " Which is a load of BS.
I didn't say that she pushed or forced people into donating. I said that she took a trout load of money from people's pockets promising a project and then vanished showing no sexism in gaming project whatsoever.
If you want to support somebody who has coughed up $ 150,000 from innocent people who believed that she was going to use their hard earned cash for a project to do with sexism and then didn't, be my guest.
So smurfing what ?
So smurfing what ?
Oh. my. god.
She created what looks like a false project, lied to people, coughed up money from them and then left. That's smurfing con-artist trout right there.
Yes it wrong to be violent and overaggressive to somebody and it is disgusting to send somebody a death-threat, but is it better to manipulate people and scam others ? I don't think so.
Last edited by maybee; 01-09-2013 at 09:47 AM.
She is a gobtroute, but still, the over-reaction to her gobtroutery was entirely unjustified and inexcuseable.
Master of the Fork
Cid's Knight
She didn't deserve the hate, she didn't. Saying she did is wrong. Miriel is correct about that.
As Raistlin most likely will point out, there are blatant things that will need to be changed in this industry. She's right in that. Her presentation though and her follow through are not the most ideal. The way she's going about it just doesn't seem like it's the best course of action to me. She walks into a biker bar and yells "harleys suck, change your ways!" Then complains that they beat her ass. Instead of trying to slowly integrate the idea of sexism in video games = bad she decides to jump headfirst in to the shark tank and then lives off of their reaction. What'd you think was gonna happen?
If you're going to poke the fire like you did, show something from your efforts. That's my beef with her. Maybe just growing up as a female gamer, I know how to react to sexist guys. Heck I get it all the time at my work "do you actually play games or do you just work here?" It's bothersome and needs to change but it's also the culture of gaming. If you want to be involved at all as a female you have to know this atmosphere. We're lucky with the Final Fantasy series, it's not nearly as bad as some others out there. In fact our little corner of the internet has a surprisingly abundance of females. It is a problem but one we already know exists. If you're going into it without knowing that, as a feminist media critic, then you probably haven't done your research.
Just show some of your project and we'll be better. Not good, but better.
This is the biggest problem here. That you seem to equate critiquing something to be "attacking" it. If you seriously can't see the sexism issues with Princess Peach... I don't even know. She wasn't attacking the gaming industry, just like Raistlin isn't attacking Final Fantasy. You can look at something intelligently and say, "Hey, look at these issues of sex/race/violence/etc within this game" and still like the game.
You said she deserved *all* the bullying she received. The death threats were part of that, which was why I found your comment so disturbing.I didn't say that she deserved the death threats, so calm down and take your chill pills.
Can you clarify, why exactly it's bulltrout? She did handle the abuse remarkably well. And she did get what someone else aptly described as a scorched earth campaign. I don't think I have ever seen anything like it on the internet. It was incredible in it's hatefulness. I think this was a unique opportunity for anybody to take a look at the situation and talk about it.No her TedX talks are always about "how hard down by she was and how she's defended a ton of trolls and how she's like this big massive hero of the Internet " Which is a load of BS.
She was threatened with death, rape and violence. Do you get that? Do you understand that there was a video game created where you can "beat the bitch up"? That there were attempts to distribute her home address and phone number. And you think that her talking about this kind of abuse is a pity party? I am so glad she is talking about this, shedding light on this ugly dark side of the internet and of the gaming community. How can you view her talk on Tedx and not be disgusted on her behalf? I just can't even comprehend.
You know this... how? As far as I can see, she has been updating her backers on kickstarter. And from what I understand, she initially wanted to do a few quick videos with the $5000 she originally asked for in the campaign. Just enough for her to cover her rent and expenses while she took on this project. Then, with the huge influx in funds, she revamped the project to be more in depth and with higher production value.I didn't say that she pushed or forced people into donating. I said that she took a trout load of money from people's pockets promising a project and then vanished showing no sexism in gaming project whatsoever.
This takes time. My videographer for my wedding quoted me with a timeline of 8 MONTHS for one video. Anita is make 5+ videos. Her biggest mistake is that she probably took on more than she could handle and wasn't as up front about the progress as she should be. But I'm not mad at that. I miss deadlines at times too. All eyes are on her, do you really think that she would be giving herself more media exposure while simultaneously expecting to run off with the money?
The hate towards her began before her kickstarter campaign even ended. You are lying to yourself if you believe that the money or production delay was the reason why you, or others hated her.[B]If you want to support somebody who has coughed up $ 150,000 from innocent people who believed that she was going to use their hard earned cash for a project to do with sexism and then didn't, be my guest.
She created what looks like a false project, lied to people, coughed up money from them and then left. That's smurfing con-artist trout right there.
Her timeline for the video was late fall or early winter. Did you or others wait until early winter to start hating her? Did you wait 6 months and then decide, "hey, it's so terrible that she's late on the project, she is a horrible person and deserves bullying!" I somehow doubt it.
I don't agree with everything she has to say, but yes, I do support her. I don't even have to like her or her project but I do support her against the rampant sexism that was exhibited in reaction to her.
Yes it wrong to be violent and overaggressive to somebody and it is disgusting to send somebody a death-threat, but is it better to manipulate people and scam others ? I don't think so.
She didn't manipulate anyone. And yes, it is worse to send death threats, to make racist remarks, sexist remarks, make video games where you can beat her up, all worse than one girl making a kickstarter campaign unless her campaign was to kill kittens and puppies.
Last edited by Miriel; 01-09-2013 at 09:00 PM.
You haven't seen any videos yet, Miriel. You never know what might be in them. Maybe mass puppy immolation will be an act of protest?
ITT: feminist critique on vidya is bad because it's feminist critique.
And apparently a research project the scope of 150k needs to be finished within 5 measly months or you're a con artist. Wtf people!
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