LINEAR MAPS :@

[VeloZer0]

I haven’t included quotes with this because it is a response to everything I have read in this thread.
*I make several statements as fact which can obviously only be my opinions, but its far easier to phrase them this way*

Re: Great Crystal Dungeon

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My only problem with this zone was that the lack of map made it a significantly longer trek to get through. Had the game been enjoyable to me I probably would have appreciated it more, but as it was I was just trying to rush through to get some closure on the game.

Re: Combat System

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I concur that this is the wrong place to discus combat systems, but I would like to note that if you are not enjoying yourself as you play through the dungeon, it will probably color your impressions of the dungeon in general. When I think of dungeon designs objectively I would say overall that XII was superior to X, but seeing as I was enjoying myself in X ans slogging through in XII I liked the dungeons in X far better. And it has nothing to do with dungeon design. Re: Puzzles Once again, in XII the puzzles just seemed to me like things they threw in to increase that games play time, not anything that involved me. As mentioned earlier, had I been enjoying myself I would probably feel differently. (I'm all for more complicated puzzles. Though I have mixed feelings about the phasing out of random encounters, this is certainly one good thing I can see coming of it.)

Re: Random Encounters & Dungeon Design

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I found one LARGE and crippling design constraint is that all dungeons in FFXII and other non-random encounter type RPGs is that all locations must be made open and suitable for encounters on the dungeon map. Though I don't despise large wide open areas on principle, it feels like all the areas are the same re-skinned version of each other. It makes virtually every RPG game I play nowadays feel very uninspired. Just think of how many areas of your favorite pre-PS2 RPGs would be impossible to recreate in the new paradigm.

Re: Camera Angle & UI

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I've ranted about this before, but this is another place to vent about my single biggest issue with the 'modern generation' of RPGs. This shift from overhead cam to third person camera is, imho, THE biggest shift in RPG dungeon design for me. This is significant because:
a) you always get the narrow tunnel vision perspective of looking towards your objective. I'm not looking around with this camera angle, I am looking where I want to go. With my vision focused on the path ahead (when I am looking at the path, see next rant) I am missing the work that only comes into enough detail I can see it when it is very close to my character.
b) maps lessen the focus of looking at the dungeon. Because of the constant camera angle change third person perspective makes it much harder to keep yourself oriented in a dungeon. This has made map essential and ubiquitous. However, this results in more attention being drawn to maps than to the environments themselves. I can't count how many dungeons I have blown through barely even taking note of the surroundings. If I was the person whose job was designing the dungeon textures it would make me want to cry.
c) there is a proliferation of crap on the field screen. I can't stress enough how much
better an environment looks with the removal of ALL UI elements. When I used to play WoW, which isn't known for it's cutting edge graphics, I was constantly amazed how much better the game looked if I were to turn of ALL of my UI elements. This occurred to me again when playing Tales of Legendia. The game isn't especially well developed graphically, but the game features rendered backgrounds done in the same style of old pre-rendered games. And despite the relative primitiveness of the textures all I was taking in was how good all the areas looked. (Not to mention I could navigate and not get lost w/o a map)

Re: Path Like Design

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Though there is much hate for the path like design of FFX, I can’t say the layouts of FFXII felt appreciably different. To me they were just big paths, with very wide shoulders on the side. They still felt like something I had to get through to get where I am going, not something I was exploring. I blame this on the camera angles, as if you think about it most pre-rendered layouts are essentially just long winding paths, the fixed camera just made you not notice it.

Re: Motivation

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Dungeons usually fall into one of two categories 1) It’s in my way, 2) I need to get something from it. In case number one the dungeon requires little or no explanation, it is just there. In fact, no explanation is usually better, as the more they try to explain the more it is apparent they have left out. In case number two, there has to be explanation to go with it. It has to be plausible why this object is in a monster filled pit, and why you know it is there in the first place. This becomes harder to explain the more civilized the world becomes. In games where the cities seem somewhat isolated from each other, and much of the world remains untamed it is much easier to accept all of these monster filled areas that you are the first ones to brave. The Pilgrimage of Mt. Bur-Omisace was one of the most disillusioning parts of FFXII for me, here I was feeling like I was exploring lands not claimed by civilization, blazing a new path into the unknown, and I get to a dam temple that everyone and their dog seems to be able to get to.

Re: Treasure Chests

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Do you remember how excited you were in FFIV to go the wrong way in a dungeon and hit a dead end? Why, because you were excited for the loot that was invariably waiting in a chest to reward your exploration. And these items were significant upgrades. Fast-forward to FFXII and it’s treasure chests. They were so useless that I stopped collecting them after the first half of the game. (And don’t get me started on the fact that you only have a random chance of getting a good item even if you loot a unique item chest). Having the extra exploration of a dungeon yield significant upgrades is one of the biggest ways to make exploring a dungeon more interesting. Once I realized exploring the areas of a dungeon get me nothing, it just becomes a big obstacle between me and where I am going.