Can't get enough Final Fantasy?

[Fynn]

My only fear is that we'll be stuck with the FFXIII battle system in this scenario. The ATB system didn't change all that much from FFIV to FFIX. Perhaps they think FFXIII's system is the new baseline and future games will build upon it.

What if they decided to use XII's ADB system instead? That would be awesome. They could keep expanding on it with each entry!

[Wolf Kanno]

That's what you would think, but the second game has melee classes and when you actually use one and take your first swing at somebody, it just clicks in your brain like "oh... okay... this can work..."

Interesting, but I'll guess we'll have to see.

There's a reason you put quotes around stats! While certain factors may have an impact on damage and charge times, the problem is that after those changes, those items become fixed entities. They're impacted by set intervals, not progressively. And damage isn't impacted by progressively changing strength, comparative defense, or customization of the item itself. Whereas in RPGs, it's all about randomization and what you try to do about it. Randomization is the hallmark of RPGs, going back to its origin in pen and paper games.

It's like when we discuss why Zelda isn't an RPG in GGaming, and the layers separating Demon's Souls and Zelda are pretty numerous.

The problem here, is that since you can't really see the stats in progress in DS when you battle, partially because the random number generator difference is so miniscule, it might as well be seen as just an action game. Seriously, a few point differences are not that noticeable. Granted stuff like equipment/weapon/magic requirements heavily utilize the stats, but ultimately, I really don't feel the stats are as important as just the skill to attack an enemy by exploiting weaknesses, or proper counter timing.

For me, all Action RPGs fall into the problem of the old saying, "you can't serve two master's lest you love one and scorn the other" and that's the issue I've always had with this genre because it either goes towards the action side or RPG side. If it's action, levels and stats are arbitrary and success has more to do with skills, if its the RPG side, then skill won't help you as much as min/max stats. KH is more of an action game, while Crisis Core is more of an RPG. Demon's Souls is more like KH, while the stats certainly help and in DS' case expand your options, it still comes down to the skill of the player. Whereas in CC, you'll hit a brick wall eventually in the Missions if you don't have levels or materia that max out your stats. Its why the games Hard mode is impossible without getting near 100% completion in Normal mode.

As for Zelda not being an RPG, well... I'd try to tell that to Nintendo because the Zelda games are listed under RPGs in the Virtual Console

I've heard a lot of good things about Agito from you guys, but I honestly can't see myself playing it. Despite all I've said in Demon's Souls defense, I'm just not interested in that Action RPG style that Square Enix has been on with Kingdom Hearts and Dissidia. I know Dissidia's supposed to be a fighting game, but I'm talking about the style here and Dissidia's really only a fighter because they have you fight one opponent at a time. It's not like Demon's Souls which is very well planned out by a developer who has roots in the origin of this kind of thing, it's just a lame attempt to move away from the criticism of non-fans of the genre that turn-based is inherently, by definition, a bad game mechanic. Then again, Type-0 might not even be what I'm talking about here at all, but I guess for now I'll just say i'll get around to it, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, just don't complain if I come with a wall of text for a post in the sub-forum

I don't count Dissidia as a true fighting game, course I don't think Smash Bros. is either (yeah I said it fanboys). I'm not sure I would count it as an action game either but Dissidia was always an odd duck. I'm not the biggest fan of action RPGs myself, I prefer my turn based battle systems as well, but I actually feel SE has come a long way with Action games since Final Fantasy Adventure, and while not all of their games are successful ( most of their action games are usually pathetically easy) I do feel they have finally made them an enjoyable experience none the less, it's the reason I'm not bemoaning Type-0 or Versus XIII for being action games, because games like Birth By Sleep and The World End With You are actually fun to play and have shown me they can pull it off.

My only fear is that we'll be stuck with the FFXIII battle system in this scenario. The ATB system didn't change all that much from FFIV to FFIX. Perhaps they think FFXIII's system is the new baseline and future games will build upon it. That certainly supports a shorter development cycle, which we have see in FFXIII-2. I hope they change it, but at the same time I hope the change isn't another radical reimagniation (like action RPG).

This is my greatest concern about them going for this business model because I don't care for XIII's combat system personally, and I feel it has the least room to expand and grow out of previous combat systems. I feel The White Wizard of Fynn has the better idea of what should be the norm personally.

A question: if they want to put out a FF game every 1-2 years doesn't that mean FFXV should already be in development?

Hell, I've suspected its been in development since FFXII was released. Course I'm betting Versus XIII might just get renamed...

[Bolivar]

I'm actually kinda feelin the schedule as well. With XIII, they spent so long on the game that they took so long, they basically had to put it out in order to save face. Whereas with the faster release schedule of older games, they'll have to actually get the planning phase done, they'll be able to experiment with things and then decide whether to keep, ditch, or refine it for future titles and there'll be a lot more of them. Overall I think it will keep them more in tune with the fast pace of the gaming industry and possibly get them back to where they're the leaders of the pack. But we'll see.

For me, all Action RPGs fall into the problem of the old saying, "you can't serve two master's lest you love one and scorn the other" and that's the issue I've always had with this genre because it either goes towards the action side or RPG side.

As a law student, I kinda depend on that old saying being false! But I guess this comes down to opinion - when I look at Demon's Souls, I see how it's dependent on your skill as a player and the way the fights play out, but I also recognize that this is all within the confines of an RPG system, which I felt was beautifully implemented.

As far as SE's more actioney games, I guess they still have to convince me, but granted I haven't played a lot of the older ones and I refuse to play Kingdom Hearts, partly out of taste, but almost out of principle as well (ok, I'm an elitist when it comes to some things...)

[Del Murder]

My only fear is that we'll be stuck with the FFXIII battle system in this scenario. The ATB system didn't change all that much from FFIV to FFIX. Perhaps they think FFXIII's system is the new baseline and future games will build upon it.

What if they decided to use XII's ADB system instead? That would be awesome. They could keep expanding on it with each entry!

Wasn't really a big fan of that one either. I like a dedicated battle screen with turn-based combat over real time encounters controlled by pre-set AI macros. That works for MMOs, but in a single player game it got tiring. I will say it was beter than FFXIII, though, and I would be curious as to how they would improve it.

The classic ATB is really where it's at for me. SE has shown they can modernize it, as exemplified with the phenomenal implementation in FFX-2. I also really liked the turn-based systems of FFX and FFT (they are really similar, the difference being in FFX you can't move around the field). They are very simple systems that don't require a lot of finesse. With those in place you can focus your development time on other things.

[VeloZer0]

I always thought that the system FFX used (turn based & speed based) was a really great system. It is simple yet leaves a ton of options.

[Flying Arrow]

A really, really well thought out and deep version of FFX's combat (including universal experience, please) would be awesome. I don't think they'll ever go back to full-on turn based anymore though, sadly.