The Last of Us

[Levian]

Every time this complaint rolls around I have the same reaction: Please show me all these zombie games that I have missed. Because there are plenty of games out there where zombies are an enemy, but they could just as easily be replaced with commies or nazis or robots or aliens or what have you. Zombies have shallow motives? Sure, find me a videogame where the enemy doesn't and I'll show you a rare gem. These are Not Zombie Games™, they are games which happen to include zombies. You might as well complain about a new SSX because there are ice levels in Sonic. Rye talks about an angle on zombies here and she's pretty much spot on; if the zombie apocalypse isn't about the survivors, then it's not a piece of zombie media.

Games which are actually about zombies are pretty smurfing rare, in fact I can think of Project Zomboid, Dead State, Dead Rising, Dead Island (debatable for the same reason), RDR: Undead Nightmare and that's it. Probably a few flash games knocking around as well.

I'm sorry if my post came across as just picking on zombie games, zombies are the topic of the thread, so that's what I addressed. I find games with other mindless creatures, like the ones you mentioned, to be just as lacking in plot in general. Horrors in general are as well lacking in plot, and it's a damn shame, because the genre has so much potential to be great.

"Zombies have shallow motives? Sure, find me a videogame where the enemy doesn't and I'll show you a rare gem."

That's the whole point really, there's not too many good horrors out there. It'd be nice if they would put some effort into the story part of the game rather than filling it with killing monsters because they are monsters. Zombie (and other monster) games is an offender in this area. They're so close to being games that I like, yet so far away. That's what annoys me, make good horrors damn it!

Hopefully I don't have to wrap [imo] tags around my post?

[Psychotic]

Dead Nation, Dead Block, Dead Space, Dead Space 2, Dead Rising 2, Left4Dead, Left4Dead 2, Call of Duty: World at War: Zombies, Yakuza: Dead Souls, Rock of the Dead, Zombie Panic in Wonderland, Zombie Wranglers, Undead Knights, The Zombie Island of Dr. Ned, Zombie Tycoon, Burn Zombie Burn!, Plants vs. Zombies, Zombie Apocalypse, I Made a Game with Zombies in It!, Shellshock 2: Blood Trails, The Last Guy, Little Red Riding Hood's Zombie BBQ, Teenage Zombies: Invasion of the Alien Brain Thingys!, Killing Floor, OneeChanbara Revolution, Resident Evil 5, Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles, Resident Evil: The Mercenaries 3D, Resident Evil: Revelations, Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City, Resident Evil 4 HD, Resident Evil Code: Veronica X, The House of the Dead 2 & 3 Return, The House of the Dead: Overkill, Silent Hill Homecoming, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Silent Hill: Downpour.

Ignoring multiple entries from franchises (Looking at you, Resi!) how many of these games actually play the same? You can't honestly be comparing Plants vs Zombies to Resident Evil 5, or CoD to Dead Rising 2. It's like being pissed off that both Final Fantasy and Dynasty Warriors both feature a lot of sword based combat, or that Kingdom Hearts and GTA have aerial combat.

I mean, you say "If I want to fight zombies I'll play L4D" well that's just a really narrow view, isn't it? I don't think "Boy, I want to fight zombies!" I think, "I want a fast-paced timed challenge with ridiculous bosses" and end up with playing the Mercenaries on Resident Evil 5. Or maybe I think "I want to dick about with a buddy, dress up in silly outfits and cause chaos with ridiculous weapons" I'll play Dead Rising 2. I think you are pigeonholing everything into "Zombie game" and you should really open your mind because you're missing out on some smurfing awesome games. And I emphasise that - smurfing awesome games, not smurfing awesome zombie games.

[Slothy]

I know about Project Zomboid, I'm talking about the games that are a little more mainstream and, uh, "finished", for lack of a better word. But you probably knew that.

Well that's a shame, because what little there was to Project Zomboid when I first played it was already more original, interesting and entertaining than most zombie games out there, and certainly better than 99% of what you listed.

Frankly, I'd love to see a AAA title as well that handles living in a zombie world half as well as it does.

And again, I have to agree with Milf entirely. The fact that there are a lot of zombie games doesn't make a legitimately great zombie game worse. It may make it more likely to get lost in the shuffle, or result in some people passing over it because they wrongly assume early on that it's just more of the same. But overuse of a thing is not a critique of the merits of the thing when done right. And by and large there have been few zombie games that ever did it right. But that also means there is a deep untapped well of potential to draw from that is unique to the concept of a zombie apocalypse, and I definitely look forward to a company of Naughty Dog's caliber putting out their take on it. Maybe it will be different from everything else out there and maybe it won't, but it will likely be very good and well worth playing no matter what direction they take it in.

[Depression Moon]

Zombies have shallow motives? Sure, find me a videogame where the enemy doesn't and I'll show you a rare gem.

Uh Final Fantasy, Batman AA & AC, Metal Gear, Beyond Good & Evil.

[Loony BoB]

I'm fairly certain I've already noted that there games with zombies can be good (and yes, Psy, I was just starting to get carried away when I began throwing every game with zombies together, but you can still get the general idea that there are a lot of them - that is, First/Third Person Shooter vs. Zombies, not Plants vs. Zombies!) - they can be! And for what it's worth, I do like some games with zombies. But there's only so much of the feeling of being "in a world destroyed by infected/mutated/undead people who are out to eat your braaaaaains" I can take in my annual gaming fix. D=

My concern is the "beating a dead horse" deal. We have these games already, and as you guys said, they're already done well on many an occasion. Unless, as MILF said, someone were to make an AAA title along the lines of Project Zomboid (ie, amazingly different), I just can't drive myself to be excited about these games. Because I've played them already, you know? But maybe The Last of Us will be that one game that pushes the 'Shooter vs. Zombies' genre to the point that it could win game of the year. Maybe! I can hope!

[Rostum]

I've only seen the recent VGA trailer, and I haven't really read this thread... But is it a zombie game? The things looked more like monsters than zombies, so it might just be a survival horror type game?

I'm not really in to zombies, but I love survival games. Also the tech behind the game looks absolutely amazing, if it truely is in real-time like they say.

[Mo-Nercy]

People bagged Uncharted when it was in dev because it pretty much looked like Tomb Raider minus boobs. I'm not going to start doubting Naughty Dog just yet.

[Bolivar]

Are you guys really positing that games filled to the brim with zombies and obvious derivatives are not actually zombie games? I don't care if it's an intimate, personal story about survival or a a mindless shoot-em-up, both ends of the spectrum still exploit an overused setting that's been done to death in literature, games, and film over the last few years.

I don't really mind if companies stick to oversaturated genres (I loved a good 4-5 FPS titles this year), but I do find it quite humorous that Geoff Keighley was hyping up "VGA MIND-BLOWING WORLD REVEAL OF A GAME-CHANGING PS3 EXCLUSIVE THAT'S NOTHING YOU COULD EVER EXPECT" and Sony and afterwards Naughty Dog claiming a "Unique Experience unlike anything else out there..." and... yeah, it's a another post-apocalyptic zombie (or zombie derivative) game. I'm sure the characters will be relatable and the production values will be through the roof, I just enjoyed a little bit of irony out of its reveal.

But seriously, why are we talking about games like Metal Gear Rising Revengeance and this??? COMMAND & CONQUER GENERALS 2 IS ANNOUNCED AND IT'S UNDER THE CARE OF BIOWARE!!!!

[Slothy]

Are you guys really positing that games filled to the brim with zombies and obvious derivatives are not actually zombie games? I don't care if it's an intimate, personal story about survival or a a mindless shoot-em-up, both ends of the spectrum still exploit an overused setting that's been done to death in literature, games, and film over the last few years.

When the game in question could easily replace their zombies with just about any other generic monster or enemy and doesn't utilize any of the strengths that the setting can bring to a story, then no it's not a zombie game. It's a game that happens to have zombies in it but the zombies are incidental to everything else. The zombie modes in COD could use rabid racoons or bears and not substantially change the formula. And games like RE4 and 5 aren't really zombie games at all.

And the thing is, you say the formula has been done to death and overused in all media including games, but with the exception of Project Zomboid, there hasn't been anything that really captured the feel of being a survivor in the zombie apocalypse. Nothing. Not a single game I know of to go that direction. Strangely enough, the closest things I can think of were the Resident Evil: Outbreak series, and that was still pretty unrealistic. Games have yet to move past the zombies are fun to kill use despite the fact that movies like Night of the Living Dead and Dawn of the Dead were doing more with the formula decades ago, and Comics/TV shows like the Walking Dead are doing more with it now.

But seriously, why are we talking about games like Metal Gear Rising Revengeance and this??? COMMAND & CONQUER GENERALS 2 IS ANNOUNCED AND IT'S UNDER THE CARE OF BIOWARE!!!!

Not to get too off topic, but I never played many of the older C&C games that were apparently good, so I don't really care about the announcement of a new one. And I care even less because BioWare are doing it. I've played enough of their games at this point to simply accept that I don't like them (not to mention BioWare is now made up of four separate development teams, only one of which being the original that made the games everyone raved about like KOTOR, Mass Effect etc. Guess who isn't making this new C&C game by the way).

[Old Manus]

I agree with BoB. Shoehorning zombies into your game is the new chesthighwalls/PRESS A TO COVER/killenemiestoearnpointstospendonupgradingweapons. Except hopefully it is just a passing fad.

[Quindiana Jones]

I was going to make this thread, except it would've been titled "Developer of bland, crappy action games making a bland, crappy zombie game".

[Bolivar]

When the game in question could easily replace their zombies with just about any other generic monster or enemy and doesn't utilize any of the strengths that the setting can bring to a story, then no it's not a zombie game. It's a game that happens to have zombies in it but the zombies are incidental to everything else. The zombie modes in COD could use rabid racoons or bears and not substantially change the formula. And games like RE4 and 5 aren't really zombie games at all.

I'm not going to overextend myself in this with a wall of text. I'm just going to say I think claiming "these things don't do the stuff that I think could make it better" doesn't allow you to discount it from the genre. Call of Duty could replace Russians with yettis and the story would probably make more sense... but it's still a military shooter. And if those things you think these games lack are feelings of isolation, fear, and a desperate need to gather resources to survive, I'd be hard pressed to name an alleged Zombie game that doesn't have those things.

Not to get too off topic, but I never played many of the older C&C games that were apparently good, so I don't really care about the announcement of a new one. And I care even less because BioWare are doing it. I've played enough of their games at this point to simply accept that I don't like them (not to mention BioWare is now made up of four separate development teams, only one of which being the original that made the games everyone raved about like KOTOR, Mass Effect etc. Guess who isn't making this new C&C game by the way).

I thought you were into older RTS games? If you're familiar with the genre (THEY'RE NOT STRATEGY GAMES BECAUSE THEY COULD BE DOING SO MUCH MORE WITH THE SETTING!!! (j/k)) then you might not find them as impressive. But C&C is my favorite RTS series. Generals was the only one after the departure of the original developers, Westwood (now Petroglyph - check out End of Nations(no excuse not to, I linked it for ya )) to maintain the superb quailty of the older games, and arguably surpass it.

I don't care for Bioware much myself, but that's due to a creative choice, I'm just not interested in their flavor of game. But I do recognize and respect the care they bring to their titles so I'm happy about this.

[Pete for President]

I was going to make this thread, except it would've been titled "Developer of bland, crappy action games making a bland, crappy zombie game".

I would approve

[Slothy]

And if those things you think these games lack are feelings of isolation, fear, and a desperate need to gather resources to survive, I'd be hard pressed to name an alleged Zombie game that doesn't have those things.

Funny, because I really can't think of many that have ever pulled off any of those things. Most games with zombies these days have simply become action games where they rarely try and impart any sense of fear, require resource management to survive, or pull off the sense of isolation. They can still be great games mind you. The L4D series is utterly brilliant. But that's not because it makes the most of the zombie formula (though they actually try harder than other games if you stop shooting hordes long enough to look around at the little details they add to the world).

I thought you were into older RTS games? If you're familiar with the genre (THEY'RE NOT STRATEGY GAMES BECAUSE THEY COULD BE DOING SO MUCH MORE WITH THE SETTING!!! (j/k)) then you might not find them as impressive. But C&C is my favorite RTS series. Generals was the only one after the departure of the original developers, Westwood (now Petroglyph - check out End of Nations(no excuse not to, I linked it for ya )) to maintain the superb quailty of the older games, and arguably surpass it.

I am into strategy games quite a bit. I think the reason I missed out on it was that I got into strategy games around when Starcraft and Alpha Centauri came out, and I really didn't play a whole lot more than those for a while, because, well, they were Starcraft and Alpha Centauri. It's hard not to sink years into those games. I had always heard a lot about C&C at the time, it just never really worked out that I got one, in part because I wasn't sure where to start with the series to be honest.

I don't care for Bioware much myself, but that's due to a creative choice, I'm just not interested in their flavor of game. But I do recognize and respect the care they bring to their titles so I'm happy about this.

Not to spit on your hopes or anything, but that was kind of my point. This isn't the main Bioware dev team. This is a completely separate dev team that just got renamed to capitalize on the Bioware name. One would certainly hope they would put a lot of care into their game as Bioware does (even if I've never liked a Bioware game), but I hope for that with every game developer. But since we literally know nothing about who is working at this new developer, it's hard to say if they'll pull it off.

[Freya]

I agree with milf before i started skipping posts because they were tl:dr. I wouldn't call the CoD's zombie games. They are games that also have a few maps with zombies in it. But yeah the zombie genre is about survival not so much zombies. Why do you think the show walking dead is doing so well?

I agree about the point that zombies are everywhere now but I wouldn't say all the games you listed are really "zombie" games.