Aeris or Aerith?

[Tigmafuzz]

Aeris both looks and sounds better. End of discussion.

"Aerith" leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Jiro]

You realise that they don't write character names repeatedly, right? They use a variable so that when you name Cloud "fabio" it shows up everywhere his name is mentioned. You don't manually attach Loony BoB to every post you make. I'll rebut the rest of your post when I'm not on mobile.

[Raistlin]

Despite the fact that I still often say "Aeris," I don't think it's up to reasonable dispute that "Aerith" is closer to the original intent of the developers. How often are the names of major characters changed in later appearances?

Daniel, you seem incredibly confused by how game development works, and your repeated insistence that "Aeris" was not a mistake is either ridiculously pedantic or delusional. You admit that "this guy are sick" was a mistake, making your insistence that one particular name was not a mistake entirely arbitrary. The localization team can and frequently do mess up, in a variety of games. They can mess up in big ways and small ways (I mean, have you even played FFT? That translation was abysmal). The name is not, in fact, "plastered" all over the game, but appears once when you first name her, and then it's a variable for the rest of the game. The member of the localization team that translated the Japanese to "Aeris" made a mistake, in that they differed from the original intent of the developers who named her. The mistake was so obvious that many Western players still referred to her as "Aerith" even before SE officially revised her English name. It was not caught because the localization wasn't checked over with a fine tooth comb in those days; you can find plenty of contemporary games riddled with translation errors.

And most importantly, this was a mistake that was admitted by SE, who officially revised the name the character's future appearances. That should really settle the debate.

If you want to keep calling her "Aeris" because that's what you got used to, that's fine. Nobody would take issue with that, and I still do sometimes as well. Hell, you can still argue it's her "original" English name, because that just seems like a pointless semantic dispute that will vary depending on how you define "original" in that context. But "Aeris" was indisputably a mistranslation.

[Jiro]

smurfing Raistlin got to it first.

[Skyblade]

Given that her name is a series of characters entirely free to player manipulation, does it really warrant this much hostility?

Her name is Anri. Why? Because that's what I typed in and what the game accepted and used.

[Loony BoB]

Despite the fact that I still often say "Aeris," I don't think it's up to reasonable dispute that "Aerith" is closer to the original intent of the developers. How often are the names of major characters changed in later appearances?

Intent of the developers, yes. Intent of the translaters, no. I firmly believe the person who wrote down 'Aeris' did it with the intention of the name being 'Aeris', not as a result of bad knowledge of grammar or a typo.

Daniel, you seem incredibly confused by how game development works, and your repeated insistence that "Aeris" was not a mistake is either ridiculously pedantic or delusional. You admit that "this guy are sick" was a mistake, making your insistence that one particular name was not a mistake entirely arbitrary. The localization team can and frequently do mess up, in a variety of games. They can mess up in big ways and small ways (I mean, have you even played FFT? That translation was abysmal). The name is not, in fact, "plastered" all over the game, but appears once when you first name her, and then it's a variable for the rest of the game.

Actually, it also appears in the manual. And I'm pretty confident that they had to type it out in at least two different areas within the game because there are different variables for each character's name before and after the name change box comes up, and Aeris is actuallyed called Aeris before you name her (Cloud is called Ex-Soldier). I would be surprised if it doesn't appear in more places than these key areas, but that's enough for me.

The member of the localization team that translated the Japanese to "Aeris" made a mistake, in that they differed from the original intent of the developers who named her.

The name was intentionally listed as Aeris. Did any of the developers tell this guy they intended for her to be called Aerith? Did anyone correct it? Guess not.

The mistake was so obvious that many Western players still referred to her as "Aerith" even before SE officially revised her English name. It was not caught because the localization wasn't checked over with a fine tooth comb in those days; you can find plenty of contemporary games riddled with translation errors.

A fine tooth and comb!? IT'S THE NAME OF A PLAYABLE CHARACTER. You can bet your life that if Tifa was called Tiaf they would have fixed it in a second. The only assumption that would work is if you revised your statement to say "at all" instead of "with a fine tooth and comb". AT. ALL. In which case I would simply say "Well, who's bloody fault is that?" If you put this kind of responsibility with the localisation team, they will name it what they bloody like and that will ship and it's your own smurfing fault if it's "not what you intended." It is, at that point, officially her name (in that localisation - in this case, English). I'll use the Moskva/Moscow reference again - Russia probably didn't intend on Moscow being the English translation of Москва (Moskva). But it is, despite that, the official English translation of Москва (Moskva).

And most importantly, this was a mistake that was admitted by SE, who officially revised the name the character's future appearances. That should really settle the debate.

Only, they didn't. PC release, Steam release - all still say Aeris despite other things being fixed. Why would they fix untold amounts of grammar and spelling and leave the name as it is? They accepted that in that game, it's her official name, and they can't change that.

If you want to keep calling her "Aeris" because that's what you got used to, that's fine. Nobody would take issue with that,

You'd be surprised, then. >=]

and I still do sometimes as well. Hell, you can still argue it's her "original" English name, because that just seems like a pointless semantic dispute that will vary depending on how you define "original" in that context. But "Aeris" was indisputably a mistranslation.

The only way it was a mistranslation is if they actually explicitly told the head of the team translating the game that it should be Aerith and he ignored them completely over and over again. My belief? Nobody told anyone. When everyone checked over the translation, and I am assuming they look at character names, nobody complained. Or perhaps it was Aerith originally and they did complain? You can't mistranslate when you're the person that Square-Enix put in charge of inventing the translation and don't have any instruction on how to translate certain names. I would not be suprised if, one year down the line, someone like Nomura or whatever said "Oh, Aeris? Did you guys know I intended on it being Aerith when I created that character? You know, like Air-Earth? This really bugs me. I want that changed."

And I agree, Skyblade, it's very unsettling that people get this agitated over something that should be extremely easy to debate without resorting to being hostile. Unlike Raistlin, I won't resort to personal attacks just because someone disagrees with me. I expect better from you, dude. It's a bloody character name in a video game, don't go around calling people delusional over it. It's common knowledge that Aerith is what was intended by someone high up but clearly the rest of SE were never informed, and that for me is not the fault of the translation team. If the rest of SE were officially and reasonably informed, someone would have spotted it as a mistake.

Of course, regardless of all of the above: Aeris is her name in the original game, it still is her name in the name of re-releases despite other things being changed (including spelling and grammar). Intended or not, translation error or not, for me it is her name because it is her name in the most canon of all places and all appearances: THE ORIGINAL GAME.

[Wolf Kanno]

BoB, you do know that VII was translated in house by Square by a team that had a rough idea of the English language right? Its a translation error. This isn't like Terra whose English changed name has remained despite appearing in games post the original whereas "Aeris' is restored to Aerith in every game since. It's a better name, it hold more symbolic and story value, and it's less harsh sounding and grating on my ear.

[Loony BoB]

It doesn't matter how knowledgeable they were about anything. It's Aeris in the game and in the manual. It's unmissable for any QA team. It doesn't even matter if it is not what was intended by the head honchos because they didn't fix it. In the game, her name is Aeris. Can anyone dispute that? Because if you like, I can turn on the game and look at my manual and I'll see "Aeris", not "Aerith".

Aeris is her name in Final Fantasy VII, the original and central game of the series. You can't dispute this. It's fact.

Aeris is her name in the original game, it still is her name in the name of re-releases despite other things being changed (including spelling and grammar). Intended or not, translation error or not, for me it is her name because it is her name in the most canon of all places and all appearances: THE ORIGINAL GAME.

And for anyone wondering: No, I'm not actually getting worked up over this, and I know I won't change people's opinion any more than they will change mine. I'm just enjoying the debate.

[Jiro]

I don't think anyone is taking this as any more than an opportunity to let of some steam

From the FF Wiki entry for Aeris/Aerith:

Although she was never seen referred to as Aerith in game prior to Kingdom Hearts, in the original Final Fantasy VII, before naming the character she is called "Aerith" by default. This is never seen by the player since the first time her name is seen is after the name select screen, where the name selection's default is Aeris. If the name selection screen never appeared, then her name would be Aerith. The same applies for Cloud, who is called Ex-SOLDIER in the game, but this is changed when the player gets to the name selection screen where the default on the name selection is "Cloud". The same also applies for Red XIII, who is just called "Red" before naming him, but unlike the latter two, this is actually seen at the top of a dialogue box during the player's first interactions with him, and changes to "Red XIII" in the name selection screen.

Make of it what you will.

[Loony BoB]

Yeah, I mentioned that somewhere earlier. So it's her real name just as much as Cloud's real name is Ex-SOLDIER.

[Jinx]

Not gonna lie, 12 year old me didn't know what the smurf was going on Christmas Day when I was playing my brand new copy of Kingdom Hearts and some bimbo comes on the screen named "Aerith." Also, I didn't think her name was supposed to be Air-Earth, but have allusions to Earth ONLY. I thought that was the main gripe about the translation error in the first place. Aeris makes you think of Air, and Aerith makes you think of Earth. Honestly since Jenova is the "Calamity from the Skies" and the Cetra are the nomadic settlers of Gaia, it doesn't make any sense for her name to have allusions to Air.

[Loony BoB]

I'm pretty sure most of the names of FF characters don't have to make sense, because if they do, boy have I missed the point of a lot of them.

[Psychotic]

Of course, regardless of all of the above: Aeris is her name in the original game, it still is her name in the name of re-releases despite other things being changed (including spelling and grammar). Intended or not, translation error or not, for me it is her name because it is her name in the most canon of all places and all appearances: THE ORIGINAL GAME.

Uhhh actually no her name was POOPFARTS in the original game.

[Raistlin]

Daniel, your main issue seems to be the use of the words "mistake" or "mistranslation," because you're so emotionally invested in the name "Aeris" that it is impossible it could be wrong. But you have absolutely no evidence to back up your arguments besides your imaginary version of how the game was developed (i.e., arguing that if it was a mistake, they would have fixed it earlier), whereas we have actual comments from the game's developers and those who fixed Aerith's name in Kingdom Hearts.

The only way it was a mistranslation is if they actually explicitly told the head of the team translating the game that it should be Aerith and he ignored them completely over and over again. My belief? Nobody told anyone. When everyone checked over the translation, and I am assuming they look at character names, nobody complained. Or perhaps it was Aerith originally and they did complain? You can't mistranslate when you're the person that Square-Enix put in charge of inventing the translation and don't have any instruction on how to translate certain names.

Do you even read what you write? This is more made-up history. You have zero clue if any of this actually happened. And your assertion that it is not even possible for the name to be a mistranslation unless the translator was told it was wrong is hilariously arbitrary and pretty much eliminates the concept of mistranslations entirely. You also blissfully dismiss the fact that apparently her original name in FFVII actually was Aerith, making "Aeris" an even more obvious mistake.

This is about as bad as arguing with people who refuse to accept evolution: the entire weight of evidence is pretty firmly on one side.

A fine tooth and comb!?

I'm just going to leave this here.

[Loony BoB]

Daniel, your main issue seems to be the use of the words "mistake" or "mistranslation," because you're so emotionally invested in the name "Aeris" that it is impossible it could be wrong.

I don't have any issue with those words because even if it were a mistranslation, it still can quickly be pointed out that it's her name in the game. You can't go past that kind of evidence.

But you have absolutely no evidence to back up your arguments besides your imaginary version of how the game was developed (i.e., arguing that if it was a mistake, they would have fixed it earlier), whereas we have actual comments from the game's developers and those who fixed Aerith's name in Kingdom Hearts.

I have no evidence to back it up except that it is her name in the game. I mean, seriously? No evidence? Have you ignored the major point of my posts entirely? It's what I've repeated over and over. That bit. Why didn't you mention that bit in your reply? >=P Nothing to say about it?

Do you even read what you write? This is more made-up history. You have zero clue if any of this actually happened.

Did I say that I knew for certain? Did I suggest that? Answer to both: No!

And your assertion that it is not even possible for the name to be a mistranslation unless the translator was told it was wrong is hilariously arbitrary and pretty much eliminates the concept of mistranslations entirely.

Okay, so when someone translates a name (they don't do that often, do they? Names are the same all the world over. If I go to Japan, my name is still Daniel. I suppose Daniel would get translated text-wise into whatever was closest, though, if they don't just simply write the name in English... hmm) for whatever reason, my understanding is that it is translated and... that's that. That's the translation. There is nothing more to it. Right? I mean, whoever is responsible for translating Москва into Moscow got to keep it that way regardless of whether or not it was an "accurate translation". How accurate can it be when you're the person given the responsibility of translating it? It's a freakin' name, whoever is given the responsibility for the translation makes it, and it becomes official. Maybe people might go "Hey, wait a minute, we want that changed..." afterwards, but in the world of video games you can't recall FFVII on such a scale nor can you update it on such a scale, so it seems to me they are stuck with her name officially being Aeris in Final Fantasy VII.

You also blissfully dismiss the fact that apparently her original name in FFVII actually was Aerith, making "Aeris" an even more obvious mistake.

Ex-SOLDIER is Cloud's original name. Red was Red XIII's original name. So...?

This is about as bad as arguing with people who refuse to accept evolution: the entire weight of evidence is pretty firmly on one side.

Everything except her name in the game and the manual. xD I mean, I don't even get how you can overlook that completely. How do you overlook that completely? Do you ever once see her name as Aerith in the game titled: Final Fantasy VII? Ever? At all? Once? Maybe? No? Well, then.

If it helps your debate: I can't say for certain how it came to be that her name was Aeris, and perhaps someone was told that her name should be Aerith and it was overlooked entirely, over and over and over again, and was actually mistranslated. Someone - someone - must have either not been told by the developers that it should be Aerith, not understood the pre-mentioned information when it was told to them or deliberately dismissed the information. One of these three things happened. Which one? I don't know. A mistranslation is not a mistranslation if you are being told to translate something and you are given no further instruction. If the first of the three things happened, and the translation team never did receive any instruction, I would not call that a mistranslation. They didn't "cock it up" somehow. That would be like being told to draw a character without any instruction and then being told you've drawn the wrong character. No, you drew a character. There is no wrong if you are given no further information.

If it was one of the latter two options, then it was mistranslated, sure. But even if it was mistranslated, it was made official despite this once the game shipped and the text was never, ever corrected despite multiple re-releases where they DID correct other things which probably took longer than a simple Aeris-Aerith switch would have taken. In the original game, her name is Aeris. That is as final as you can get.

I don't know how else to explain how her name is Aeris if you can't get your head around the fact that in the manual and in the game, her name is Aeris. I mean, if they never released another game with her in it, would you still be saying "Oh, no, her name isn't Aeris."? xD Yes, in the other games her name is Aerith, but in the original game, the central game, the most 100% canon of all canon VII-related things, her name is Aeris, and there is nothing that you can say - "mistake" or "mistranslation" or "unintended" - that can change that.

...until they re-release the game in HD graphics or something and her name is suddenly Aerith. In which case I'll have to agree with Psychotic. POOPFARTS. Or in my game's case, Bumface. >=]