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Is it just me or was IX a bit "Meh" compared to its to predecesors?
Don't get me wrong, I liked it, but it wasn't in the same league as VII and VIII. Almost as though it was trying too hard, cos the others were effortlessly cool in a sense.
I mean I can be standing on the world map, and it just doesn't feel like the FF I know and love really.
Anyone else agree (or Disagree?)
SS
Others would argue that Final Fantasy IX is much more true to Final Fantasy than either FFVII or FFVIII. As the last installment of the series on the PlayStation, FFIX was a farewell to a great many things. As such, it hearkens back to the series before FFVII and FFVIII (and perhaps even FFVI if you want to push it that far). While I think trying to define a "true" Final Fantasy is ridiculous, it's undeniable that FFIX turned back to the series' earliest roots.
This isn't a thread about which of these games is better (since FFIX is my favorite, my stance on that matter should be obvious), but rather about whether nor not FFIX feels like a Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy IX is filled with references to previous titles in the series. Since you exclusively mentioned FFVII and VIII as the ones you know and love, I'm going to assume you don't have much experience with the series outside of those titles. As such, you're missing out on a great deal of what makes FFIX truly great. Sure, you'll pick up on a couple of the little references to Cloud and Squall or others, but you're missing on a lot of the little things.
For your reference: All the references to previous FF games in FFIX.
Anyway, I think you're grossly misinformed when you say that FFIX doesn't feel like a Final Fantasy. FFIX is more of a "classic" Final Fantasy than FFVII or VIII could ever hope to be (although they're not subtle about actively departing from what had been the formula up until about FFV; it's arguable FFVI started the trend by introducing a more blatantly steampunk setting).
I'd strongly disagree. I think that Final Fantasy IX is closer to Final Fantasy and its roots than FFVII and FFVIII were. IX itself was a tribute to the series as a whole with references and a deliberate sense of nostalgia in the way it was presented and in many of bits of back story and environment of the game.
Having recently started replaying FFVIII, I can say that that game seems like much more of a radical departure from Final Fantasy than IX did. I actually think that IX is superior to VIII and depending on my mood, better than VII as well. I'll admit that I got more out of IX second time around (having then played I, IV, V and VI) and so if you're not as experienced in the earlier games, I think it'd be well worth taking a look at them and coming back to IX to see if you appreciate it more. I know I did.
I agree with this, IX is what a Final Fantasy should, Although VII and IX are my top 2 Final Fantasys:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath
Judging by my name (and perhaps my reputation) you may be able to predict what Im going to say. I love Final Fantasy IX - in my mind it is the best Final Fantasy out of the ones I have played. Certainly it is very different when compared to FFVII and FFVIII both thematically and in terms of the setting. But what it does, in my opinion, is explore philosophical issues in a deep and invigorating way - in a way no other FF has done to the same extent.
FFIX is also really funny, has brilliant fantasy and amazing music. When I compare it to FFVII and FFVIII it just seems to have that extra fun factor to it. I could go on for ages, but your original post wasnt really specific enough for me to know what to focus on. I'll just leave my post like this for the moment.
I'm being out voted Nooo!
lol
Originally Bespoken by Ouch!
I have played/owned FF1, FF2 (PSX/PSP) FF3 (DS) FF6 (PSX) FF10 and FF12 (PS2) and the spin offs FFVII: DOC FFVII:CCQuote:
Since you exclusively mentioned FFVII and VIII as the ones you know and love, I'm going to assume you don't have much experience with the series outside of those titles.
As my Supervisor at work says- To Assume is to make an Ass out of U and Me lol :D
I can see where your all coming from, I just feel that because 7 and 8 are the ones I grew up with (being 18 now) they feel like THE Final Fantasies, IX felt more like KH, a lot more child-like you know?
Final Fantasy IX is cool in its own way. It didn't have to be futuristic like the others to be cool. It had it's own flavor, more like the final fantasies back in the day. It is personally tied for first with VII for me, but the characters in this game are waay more relatable than VII and leaps and bounds more than VIII. VIII's character development was quite poor.
If you don't want me to make assumptions, perhaps you'd like give a more detailed initial post which explains why you hold the belief you're asking us to discuss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Sepiroth
Since you've played some of the earlier titles in the series, I cannot understand your reasoning. My first Final Fantasy was FFVIII. Then I got my hands on FFVII (which I had watched my friend play before I even bought FFVIII). I have since played (although not completed) every numbered entry in the series. I have thus been able to overcome my original (and perhaps distorted) perception of the series as a whole and recognize what it originally meant to be a Final Fantasy title. FFVI, FFVII, and FFVIII, together, exhibit an extreme departure from many of the original qualities of the series. Failing to recognize that these redefined Final Fantasy and then criticizing FFIX for going back to the series' roots, I believe, shows a significant amount of willful ignorance.
Also, a more light-hearted narrative combined with nonconventional character animations and a significantly more fantastical setting doesn't mean that FFIX is in any way childish. I'd say the subjects its narrative encompasses are far more mature than any themes FFVII or FFVIII attempt to deal with, and FFIX is generally more successful while addressing such themes anyway.
I never got into the whole "FF IX is returning to teh Roots" thing.
I mean look at the massive differences between FF 1 and FF 2.
Then FF IV dropped whole chosing a Job thing in favor of Pre-determined roles in battle.
Hell, every instalment of FF has had some fairly radical changes from the last.
FF IX is just tribute to all the many things from the past FF's, not a game returning to it's roots.
That said, I love it to pieces.
I think (no offence) that people who think VII is the best should play other FFs. 3 years Two of my friendwere like ''OMG VII IS THE BEST GAME EVER PLAYED!'' Until I lent them my FFIX and sent them a FFVI rom.Trying these two FF made them try other older FFs, namely FF 1,4 and 5. That made them realise how crappy VII is compared to the olders. They didn't feel like VII was a FF at all anymore. Yeah I do enjoy VII, but I'm more of a classical RPG-man, and dislike futuristic RPGs. I hated Xenosaga. Although this might make me contradict myself, my favourite FF is VI (closely folowed by IX then V)
n00b. :P
Childlike? I fail to see this game being Childlike. Like the scene where Lindablum was massacred by the Alexandrian forces, or Alexandria getting Demolished by Bahamut, and then by the Invincible. Just about the only reason you can call this game Childlike is because of its graphics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Sepiroth
Anyway. This game has always been my favorite and will probably remain so. Out of FFVII-IX IX wins, big time, to me. First off, I like it switching back to 4 people in the ATB system. It brings a more fast pace needed to your decisions, especially on Active, or with a high battle speed. FFVII and FFVIII's battles all seemed too easy, so it easily triumphs them in terms of gameplay.
Then, in story I again much preferred FFIX. For starters, I found Kuja as the best villain out of all three, where its true, Sephiroth was pretty badass, that didn't make him a good villain. When it comes down to it, I much preferred seeing Sephiroth on the good side, hell I'd rather have him be the main freaking character! In terms of villains, you shouldn't really want that. Ultimecia was just the worst excuse for a villain ever, don't get me into why I hated her. Don't get me into why I hated FFVIII's story for that matter :P
I got far more feeling for the characters, hell, I was even far more sad with (SPOILER)Vivi's death, then Aerith's. By the end of the game we had gone through an emotional journey with him, he was one of my favorite characters. Aerith it was kinda like, "Hey bitch lookout behind-. Nevermind. Oh well." Because we barely knew her.
Cloud's character was far less appealing to me then Zidane's. Cloud spent a large amount of the game wallowing. It really pissed me off, he was looked up to as a leader, but to me, seemed to do nothing to deserve it. Zidane, was far more appealing. He clearly showed leadership, and people skills. He tried his best to battle through tough times, and comfort others, but he wasn't made like some untouchable hero. He showed times where he was pissed but helpless, and sometimes, even distraught.
It's a fun game with a nice plot and some great characters. Unfortunately, I can never play it, due to the sheer idiocy of a single minor design flaw.
:barf:Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Sepiroth
How dare you compare my beloved FFIX to Kingdom Hearts! They're not even in the same league!
Seriously, melodrama aside, FFIX is far from being child-like. Just because you have hippo women running around - it doesnt make the overall game thematically or ideologically more child-like. In fact, FFIX deals with very deep issues - issues surrounding life and what it means to live. These are hardly childish topics and the way in which they are presented is also deep. Just looking at the characters:
(SPOILERS)
Zidane - A bright, humorous and very real hero. Yet he's not invulnerable to mood swings as we see from the 'You're not alone' scene. He deals with some very serious issues regarding his purpose for living. His conflict of alleigance to Baku with love for Garnet is vaguely reminiscent of Romeo and Juliet. But he's definitely a much more likeable person than Romeo and Baku is definitely a much more sympathetic with his plight.
Garnet - Again, she too has to deal with the issue of her mother, someone who she loved deeply, turning evil and eventually dying. She watches as her kingdom is destroyed and almost everything is taken away from her. Hardly childish issues.
Vivi - One of the greatest characters of all time. Vivi begins not knowing much about anything - who he is, what he's doing here... Over time he comes to realise that by rights he should never have existed and that he owed his existance to a man of great destruction (Kuja). He deals with all sorts of issues including finding somewhere he belonged - was it the Black Mage village. In the end he answered his questions and found a way to create children. Although he died, he found a way to conquer death - the fear he felt throughout the game as he felt his life slipping away due to his overly short lifespan.
Steiner - Unarguably the greatest character in the history of the Universe. Steiner starts off as a sterotypical comical buffoon. He seems close minded but people realise that he has a good heart deep down inside. Over time he comes to learn from Zidane, and by the end of the game he is much more shrewd. He faces a serious dilemma throughout - 'having sworn fealty must I spend my life in servitude?' To an extent he solves those issues by the end of the game. He also becomes God. I worship him to this day.
Quina - Well Quina certainly seem silly doesnt it! Even a bit childish! But Quina adds some nice humour thoughout and kind of represents those who have a simple take on life.
Freya - She has a sad tale. She reflects how what most of us want in life is recognition and affection. She had all that but loses it. Upon finding Sir Fratley, his amnesia causes some quite heart rending moments. By the end she is on the path to rebuilding her life though.
Eiko - A bit of brat. But still, she shows the confusion living alone can cause people - she longs for attention and is abnormally grown up for her age in many ways. By the end she finds the attention she longs for.
Amarant - The lone wolf type. Amarant starts off as an enigma. Over time it is revealed that he was actually quite confused - he fails to understand Zidane on his outlook to life. As the game progresses he matures and realises that his way of thinking was flawed. That he shouldnt have gone around picking fights and the he discovers the merits of working in a team. He still retains his lonesome nature throughout though.
Kuja - A very confused character. He first appears in a position of power with all the party lying on the floor at his feet as he rides off on a silver dragon. This continues up until his battle with Bahamut and the eye from the sky. But as things continue we realise he has his frailties and at time he even appears childish with his fears of death. He is ultimately a pawn and this upsets him greatly. While his phenomenal power, he is actually not all that evil. This is shown at the end of the game. Instead he merely plays the role of being evil. After all, in his own mind he is centre stage and everyone else is watching his story unfold.
That was one of the best posts to describe this game. EVER.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner:barf:Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Sepiroth
How dare you compare my beloved FFIX to Kingdom Hearts! They're not even in the same league!
Seriously, melodrama aside, FFIX is far from being child-like. Just because you have hippo women running around - it doesnt make the overall game thematically or ideologically more child-like. In fact, FFIX deals with very deep issues - issues surrounding life and what it means to live. These are hardly childish topics and the way in which they are presented is also deep. Just looking at the characters:
(SPOILERS)
Zidane - A bright, humorous and very real hero. Yet he's not invulnerable to mood swings as we see from the 'You're not alone' scene. He deals with some very serious issues regarding his purpose for living. His conflict of alleigance to Baku with love for Garnet is vaguely reminiscent of Romeo and Juliet. But he's definitely a much more likeable person than Romeo and Baku is definitely a much more sympathetic with his plight.
Garnet - Again, she too has to deal with the issue of her mother, someone who she loved deeply, turning evil and eventually dying. She watches as her kingdom is destroyed and almost everything is taken away from her. Hardly childish issues.
Vivi - One of the greatest characters of all time. Vivi begins not knowing much about anything - who he is, what he's doing here... Over time he comes to realise that by rights he should never have existed and that he owed his existance to a man of great destruction (Kuja). He deals with all sorts of issues including finding somewhere he belonged - was it the Black Mage village. In the end he answered his questions and found a way to create children. Although he died, he found a way to conquer death - the fear he felt throughout the game as he felt his life slipping away due to his overly short lifespan.
Steiner - Unarguably the greatest character in the history of the Universe. Steiner starts off as a sterotypical comical buffoon. He seems close minded but people realise that he has a good heart deep down inside. Over time he comes to learn from Zidane, and by the end of the game he is much more shrewd. He faces a serious dilemma throughout - 'having sworn fealty must I spend my life in servitude?' To an extent he solves those issues by the end of the game. He also becomes God. I worship him to this day.
Quina - Well Quina certainly seem silly doesnt it! Even a bit childish! But Quina adds some nice humour thoughout and kind of represents those who have a simple take on life.
Freya - She has a sad tale. She reflects how what most of us want in life is recognition and affection. She had all that but loses it. Upon finding Sir Fratley, his amnesia causes some quite heart rending moments. By the end she is on the path to rebuilding her life though.
Eiko - A bit of brat. But still, she shows the confusion living alone can cause people - she longs for attention and is abnormally grown up for her age in many ways. By the end she finds the attention she longs for.
Amarant - The lone wolf type. Amarant starts off as an enigma. Over time it is revealed that he was actually quite confused - he fails to understand Zidane on his outlook to life. As the game progresses he matures and realises that his way of thinking was flawed. That he shouldnt have gone around picking fights and the he discovers the merits of working in a team. He still retains his lonesome nature throughout though.
Kuja - A very confused character. He first appears in a position of power with all the party lying on the floor at his feet as he rides off on a silver dragon. This continues up until his battle with Bahamut and the eye from the sky. But as things continue we realise he has his frailties and at time he even appears childish with his fears of death. He is ultimately a pawn and this upsets him greatly. While his phenomenal power, he is actually not all that evil. This is shown at the end of the game. Instead he merely plays the role of being evil. After all, in his own mind he is centre stage and everyone else is watching his story unfold.
Other people alos influence the game quite a bit;
Beatrix- In the beginning, like Steiner, she had sworn loyalty to the Queen and was blindly following extremely destructive orders. People called her the 'ruthless General Beatrix', yet she was merely following orders and was misunderstood. But, by the time we get to battle her for the third time, we actually get to see her true character come into play. We soon find out that she has a kind soul and a good heart, only wishing to do the right thing. I believe for the most part she is reserved, but Garnet brings out her motherly side.
Brahne- Now this goes without saying, really. She was blinded by Kuja so that he could carry out his plans. You hate her one minute, then the very next you feel sorry for her because she is (SPOILER)dead.
It's really tough for me, this are undoubtedly my 3 favorite Final Fantasy's and on any given day I could prefer one over another. When I first beat IX I thought that it had topped FFVII. However, years later, re-playing both many times, I had to switch my opinion:
The battle flow in FFVII greatly surpasses not only FFVIII and especially IX. In VI, VIII, and IX, you spend a great deal of time sitting there watching the battle unfolding, waiting for lengthy animations to end so you can input your next characters command, sometimes finishing long before the next lengthy animation will end. These 3 games each took the "A" out of ATB. In VII I felt the flow was perfect, a bar fills up, you go, you see what happens next, you're always on your toes. It also scores points for having the "Recommended" battle speed option, something no other FF has had, only stopping battle for lengthier animations such as summons. The camera angles and movements were also much more dramatic, whereas the camera was pretty static in VIII and slightly behind in IX.
We can argue all day about story, characters, and plot devices, but we couldn't come to definitive conclusions. However, battle is an important part of RPGs to me, and VII dwarfs the others, not only for the above reasons, but also because VIII started, and IX followed, the new FF tradition of having only 2-3 monsters on screen, and very rarely any more than that.
I also have to say that it's unreasonable for all of you to jump on Super Sepiroth for saying that it's child-like. FFIX is undoubtedly the corniest game in the series (again, it's one of, and on some days, my favorite). Zidane is a warm and fuzzy main character accompanied by warm and fuzzy sidekicks, the only time his personality changes is in pandemonium, which was actually pretty unbelievable because he unexplainably buys into Garland's logic after being so defiant against it. He's almost the definition of 2 dimensional. Also, VII and VIII in many cases "show" you the themes they're trying to convey, whereas IX has to "tell" you, such as Garland's lengthy monologue on societies. In visual storytelling, this is a very poor technique, and a huge mistake.
Lastly, I just want to say, that the amount of effort that IX put into making it seem like a "true-to-FF" game is a very un-FF thing to do. Having played all the FF's, the references don't really enrich the game for me, because in VII and VIII they were all more subtle and were more rewarding that way.
How the battles play out may be important, but not what killed the game for me. For me, it was when I heard there was a treasure chest late in the game that could only be opened if you reach it within a certain period of total game time. That ruined the entire game for me. Being a perfectionist, I feel I have to get that item. However, speed running a FF game just feels wrong. Part of what I love about these games is being able to explore every nook and cranny of the world, talk to every NPC, learn every ability... Being driven to run through the game as fast as I can just ruins so much of the fun for me that the game isn't worth playing anymore, unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Abuh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Sounds more like your craziness ruined IX for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkybladeHow the battles play out may be important, but not what killed the game for me. For me, it was when I heard there was a treasure chest late in the game that could only be opened if you reach it within a certain period of total game time. That ruined the entire game for me. Being a perfectionist, I feel I have to get that item. However, speed running a FF game just feels wrong. Part of what I love about these games is being able to explore every nook and cranny of the world, talk to every NPC, learn every ability... Being driven to run through the game as fast as I can just ruins so much of the fun for me that the game isn't worth playing anymore, unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
The locations of FFVIII are much cooler than the locations of FFIX. That's the only thing I can say in defense of FFVIII.
I think you meant to type "epic," not "meh." =O
Admitted. But I still feel that an FF game should not be built to promote speed runs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto13
Its a like an extra challenge. Your not suppose to get it your first run through, it needs a file all of its own.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkybladeAdmitted. But I still feel that an FF game should not be built to promote speed runs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto13
Tbh, I dont give a flying :skull::skull::skull::skull::skull: about the battle systems in Final Fantasy. Except for FFXII's.
Thats not strictly true but most important by far for me in FF games is the story, the music and the overall presentation.
Oh, hell no! Have you played FFVIII? The 'love' in that is ridiculously corny. Sure, FFIX felt corny, but it also felt inspired. FFVII lacked that feeling to some extent IMO.Quote:
I also have to say that it's unreasonable for all of you to jump on Super Sepiroth for saying that it's child-like. FFIX is undoubtedly the corniest game in the series (again, it's one of, and on some days, my favorite). Zidane is a warm and fuzzy main character accompanied by warm and fuzzy sidekicks, the only time his personality changes is in pandemonium, which was actually pretty unbelievable because he unexplainably buys into Garland's logic after being so defiant against it. He's almost the definition of 2 dimensional. Also, VII and VIII in many cases "show" you the themes they're trying to convey, whereas IX has to "tell" you, such as Garland's lengthy monologue on societies. In visual storytelling, this is a very poor technique, and a huge mistake.
I disagree strongly with Zidane being two-dimensional. You say that he 'unexplainably buys into Garland's logic after being so defiant.' But actually, it was quite natural. The follows sort of what the natural progression of feelings are when you hear bad news which you know in your heart is true.
Disbelief/Denial ------> Defiance/Anger------> Bargaining -------> Depression-------> Acceptance
Stages of Grief
Zidane follows those 5 stages of grief pretty much text book style. First he doesn't believe what Garland says, then he aggressively shouts at him saying how he is wrong. He skips out bargaining, but then thinks through all the things that happened to him. After a while of thinking (and getting knocked out) he begins to get depressed. Then you're not alone happens. I thought it was a pretty convincing performance - much better than Squall and Rinoa's performance! The you're not alone tune makes it that much more powerful.
About the last part - Garland only has one monologue! And it isnt even that lengthy. Here it is. I think its quite good tbh:
That was his only monologue.Quote:
Voice of Garland: ...Do not limit memory to just one individual's
experiences from birth. That is only the surface. Every life born into
this world, whether natural or artificial, requires a parent. And that
parent also requires a parent. Life is connected, one to another... If
you trace the root of all life, there exists one source. The same can
be said for memory. All life constitutes an intelligence that holds
memory beyond experience. Memory is not isolated within individuals. It
is an accumulation of generations of memories that continues to evolve.
You can say that memory and evolution go hand in hand. But most life-
forms do not understand the true nature of memories...
...which explains why most memories never cross paths.
It reminds me a bit of memetic theory. Final Fantasy VII uses that as well - at least Advent Children did.
Originally bespoken by Bolivar
Thank You! :DQuote:
I also have to say that it's unreasonable for all of you to jump on Super Sepiroth for saying that it's child-like. FFIX is undoubtedly the corniest game in the series (again, it's one of, and on some days, my favorite)
At least someone agrees, as for some of the other things said, if i weren't so tolerant i'd be offended lol.
Originally Bespoken by vivisteiner
You're gonna have to describe what you mean by corny- because in FF8 the only corny I saw was the opening sequence and stuff with the stupid stuff in the field with daisies and butterflies lol! Besides that I found Squall and Rinoa's Relationship reasonlably believeableQuote:
Oh, hell no! Have you played FFVIII? The 'love' in that is ridiculously corny. Sure, FFIX felt corny, but it also felt inspired. FFVII lacked that feeling to some extent IMO.
Compare the time of "Ice" in FFVII to "Blizzard" in FFIX, or FFVIII for that matter. My inclusion of FFVI was for other ways in which the game effectively took the "A" out of ATB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto13Abuh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
And Vivisteiner, your points are duly noted. However, as sappy as the love between Squall and Rinoa was in FFVIII, the love story between Zidane and Garnet was IMMENSELY cornier. Okay, maybe that's an exaggeration, but I would still say it was cornier. That's what gets me about IX fans and self-proclaimed "old-schoolers", that everyone usually overlooks how IX prominently featured a love story, and it was at some times more unbearable than VIII's. The only difference is that it wasn't on the logo.
And I have to say, battles do matter. That's pretty much the entire "game" aspect RPGs have, if it wasn't for that, you'd might as well watch movies or read books. And while I do hold this aspect in less regard than VII, the battles and character development system, plus different characters and their roles is a big part of what makes IX such a great game to me.
And your connection to the stages of grief/depression was very interesting, I give you points for that. But c'mon, for Zidane to be all cocky and defiant, then all of a sudden turn into Mr. Self-Loathing, even being mean to Vivi and Eiko, then all of a sudden being Mr. Upbeat again, it was all very unbelievable, and almost as simplistic as FFVI's World of Ruin character-regrouping side stories, in which the same thing happens for even less convincing reasons, except for multiple times in a row. Damn, I hate that game... (j/p)
But to add to all of it, the reason why he goes back to Mr. Positivity, is because he's reminded of his friends!!! Awww, isn't that special...
Again, IX is one of my favorite games of all time, not just FF, but make no mistake, this is the Walt Disney installment of the franchise.
Oh, what about the whole ballroom episode. Then when Squall gets all upset over Rinoa, when before he couldnt give a rats ass about her. And then the scene on the Ragnorak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Sepiroth
A matter of opinion I guess. I thought it was more natural than corny. It definitely seemed realistic - and I was glad that it wasnt a central theme. It seemed to be a much more genuine form of love than FFVIII's IMO.Quote:
And Vivisteiner, your points are duly noted. However, as sappy as the love between Squall and Rinoa was in FFVIII, the love story between Zidane and Garnet was IMMENSELY cornier. Okay, maybe that's an exaggeration, but I would still say it was cornier. That's what gets me about IX fans and self-proclaimed "old-schoolers", that everyone usually overlooks how IX prominently featured a love story, and it was at some times more unbearable than VIII's. The only difference is that it wasn't on the logo.
They do matter, but they all seemed pretty much equally good in each FF. Although FFVIII had ridiculously long summons.Quote:
And I have to say, battles do matter. That's pretty much the entire "game" aspect RPGs have, if it wasn't for that, you'd might as well watch movies or read books. And while I do hold this aspect in less regard than VII, the battles and character development system, plus different characters and their roles is a big part of what makes IX such a great game to me.
The reason I like RPGs is its a visual representation of book with music. Its superior to films because there is so much more room for character developement.
I dont think it was done that well. But it worked for me. Idk what to say. My opinion was that he suddenly felt this deep memory of his origins, deep down inside. He knew Garland was speaking the truth but he was defiant. He kind of collapsed from within because he knew everything Garland said was true.Quote:
And your connection to the stages of grief/depression was very interesting, I give you points for that. But c'mon, for Zidane to be all cocky and defiant, then all of a sudden turn into Mr. Self-Loathing, even being mean to Vivi and Eiko, then all of a sudden being Mr. Upbeat again, it was all very unbelievable, and almost as simplistic as FFVI's World of Ruin character-regrouping side stories, in which the same thing happens for even less convincing reasons, except for multiple times in a row. Damn, I hate that game... (j/p)
I think it was acceptance of who he really was and the wake up call from his friends that helped him. I do think his recovery was rushed a bit though.Quote:
But to add to all of it, the reason why he goes back to Mr. Positivity, is because he's reminded of his friends!!! Awww, isn't that special...
In other words it is the stuff that legends are made out of. ;)Quote:
Again, IX is one of my favorite games of all time, not just FF, but make no mistake, this is the Walt Disney installment of the franchise.
Wasn't Garland trying to remove Zidane's soul/memories? I think this helped to make Zidane out-of-character in that scene.
He tried to turn him into a regular Genome to become a host for one of the Terrans.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Crystal
Quote:
Garland: Foolishness... The body becomes a vessel, which greets a new soul...
Zidane: (feeling strange) What's happening!?
Zidane collapsed.
Garland: He's too good to make into a regular Genome... But I have no choice.
FF9 =/< FF7.
FF9 > FF8.
Being beaten to death by all your relatives > FF8.
Was 9 any where near as popular as 7 or 8 though? I may be mis-informed but i think it didn't sell as many copies of either of them.
I've heard it wasn't as popular in terms of sales too. Maybe because it was released pretty much just before the PS2 hopped on the shelves?
Of course not FF VII, but I'm not sure about VIII.
FF VII is one of the biggest selling games ever made.
However many fans of the game admit its because they though Sephiroth looks awesome.
Not saying all fans think that, but there are a huge number that do. Same thing with liking Squalls Gun Blade.
You never hear a fan saying they liked FF IX because Zidane's Daggers were cool. :p
Point being, FF VII has those kind of sales because a lot of people are superficial. And again, not all the fans are like this, but there are a good number of them.
Zidane's daggers where cool :mad2:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
No, the weapon he gets later is cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenbokoZidane's daggers where cool :mad2:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
The daggers were just nifty. :p
Just because it didn't sell as much, doesn't mean it's a worse game than the other two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Sepiroth
Anyway, it's always been hard for me to pick a favourite out of the Final Fantasy games because they're all great in their own ways. But for some reason, I've always had a soft spot for Final Fantasy IX and its atmosphere.
Final Fantasy still sold over 5 million copies. :)
5 million people who have reached salvation.
Yeah, but also at 1 point there were nearly as many copies of FFVII sold as there were Playstations sold so :pQuote:
Final Fantasy still sold over 5 million copies.
5 million people who have reached salvation.
andYeah i understand what you mean, but it means that more people liked them than 9Quote:
Just because it didn't sell as much, doesn't mean it's a worse game than the other two.
I think what he's saying is that is a very crappy argument.
Majority rule, really means nothing. When I go over my friend's house, there are 6 of us, 4 like Halo 3, and 2 like Call of Duty 4. We play Halo 3 because of majority rule, that doesn't mean Call of Duty 4 isn't as good as Halo 3.
Mass opinion /= Actual fact.
Lots of people like the Bible. It doesnt mean its a good book.
:p :p :p
I just had to get that one in.
The problem people have with the Squall-Rinoa relationship is because they fit together like Paine fits with Rikku and Yuna...that is to say, any real person of Squall’s disposition would have strangled Rinoa in the first disk.Quote:
And Vivisteiner, your points are duly noted. However, as sappy as the love between Squall and Rinoa was in FFVIII, the love story between Zidane and Garnet was IMMENSELY cornier. Okay, maybe that's an exaggeration, but I would still say it was cornier. That's what gets me about IX fans and self-proclaimed "old-schoolers", that everyone usually overlooks how IX prominently featured a love story, and it was at some times more unbearable than VIII's. The only difference is that it wasn't on the logo.
He goes through the second disk slowly but surely chipping away his solitary resolve but even during the Garden Battle against Galbadia he demonstrated a distinct lack of focus - He might have grown to care more about Rinoa but he didn’t put that above everything else.
But then...WABAM!
Disk 3 comes, she is in a coma and NOTHING else matters but him being with her.
Now Zidane and Garnet’s romance is much more smoothly integrated into the plot. Zidane plays the part of the flirty suitor and Garnet responds with a dignified distance. She isn’t outright harsh to his advances but she’s not receptive to them either.
However, as time goes by and each of the two develop, they grow closer and closer together. Zidane comes to realize Garnet is more than just a crush - she’s the woman of his dreams. Garnet comes to realize just because she’s destined to be Queen doesn’t mean she can’t rely on others.
Both Zidane and Garnet have to finish developing their own characters before their love story can reach its conclusion.
This fact is distincty lacking in FFVIII....Squall and Rinoa’s characters only evolve through the love story. Th elove story is not the peak of their progression...it’s the only way they do progress. You wind up with two characters who have distincty less personality than Zidane and Garnet who both perfected their progression before they truly “got together” if you will.
He wasn’t cocky. He was pissed off and confused. Confusion and sadness often spawn anger...Garland was the person Zidane could dump all his rage on. He spend shis entire time in Bran Bai confused and angry, walking passed the other characters in a sort of daze. He finally gets the dreadful truth revealed to him and of course responds to it by getting pissed off.Quote:
And your connection to the stages of grief/depression was very interesting, I give you points for that. But c'mon, for Zidane to be all cocky and defiant, then all of a sudden turn into Mr. Self-Loathing, even being mean to Vivi and Eiko, then all of a sudden being Mr. Upbeat again, it was all very unbelievable,
Kinda like Cloud in the Lifestream? Kinda like the only thing that could keep Squall and the others together through time was love and togetherness?Quote:
But to add to all of it, the reason why he goes back to Mr. Positivity, is because he's reminded of his friends!!! Awww, isn't that special...
Tell me, in what Walt Disney production did you see a war-torn city with a girl wandering around asking where her parents are? See a woman moving around, asking who is there because her eyes had been burned out? How about untold scores of people getting vaporized or eaten by eidolons?Quote:
Again, IX is one of my favorite games of all time, not just FF, but make no mistake, this is the Walt Disney installment of the franchise.
More people are killed in FFIX than any of the other FFs short of maybe FFVI.
It is a good book, at points. Loada rubbish, but still pretty funky at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
^Probably thought it was rubbish because I got bored by the first few pages. I was tired of the repetition - 'And he saw that it was good', or w/e. I gave up soon after when they said that woman was made out of a rib.
I love that post F_L
Its not a good book. Its the good book. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Harle-QuinIt is a good book, at points. Loada rubbish, but still pretty funky at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
FFIX pwns all, end of.
lolQuote:
Its not a good book. Its the good book.
Thats a given. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by daggertrepe
Oh God, yes. The first bits suck ass and balls and allsorts. I hate them. Skip them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
Buh. Dum. Tsh. :rolleyes2Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboko
i really enjoy the steam punk style that 7 used and what 8 somewhat used...9 was very old school...so i kinda lost interest...just an opinion though
joking about the bible- this threads getting contravertial lol
I'd say keep on topic, but i'd like so see how the conversation plays out lol
I always found 'the good book' to be oxymoronic.
After all, we know that books are boring pieces of :skull::skull::skull::skull:.
From this fact we can instead see that the divine source of inspiration must be a videogame. After careful studying, I have reached the conclusion that Final Fantasy IX is the holy video game, divinely inspired by God. That God is of course Steiner. Final Fantasy IX is merely a vessel portraying the great works of Steiner. From it we learn to pay homage to his almighty reign.
Our Steiner, who art in Ivalice (whoops, I mean Gaia)
Hallowed be thy penis
Alexandria come, thy will have fun
On Gaia as it is in Beatrix's room on a Friday night
Give us this day our daily Gysahl pickles
And deliver us from Quina
As Quina eats our food by trespassing against us
And lead us not into the temptation of beating the crap out of that worthless lowlife Zidane
But deliver us from thievery
For thine is the protection of Garnet, the power and the penis
For ever and ever.
Stein-men
Oh, my god. Loves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
you are kidding right?Quote:
IX felt more like KH, a lot more child-like you know?
NopeQuote:
you are kidding right?
Right, theres liking this game, and then theres adapting the Lords Prayer into it- this is much further than Fanboy-ism!Quote:
Our Steiner, who art in Ivalice (whoops, I mean Gaia)
Hallowed be thy penis
Alexandria come, thy will have fun
On Gaia as it is in Beatrix's room on a Friday night
Give us this day our daily Gysahl pickles
And deliver us from Quina
As Quina eats our food by trespassing against us
And lead us not into the temptation of beating the crap out of that worthless lowlife Zidane
But deliver us from thievery
For thine is the protection of Garnet, the power and the penis
For ever and ever.
Stein-men
I went back in time, then cried aloud in mirth and merriment. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
I think Vivisteiner just has a really interesting sense of humor. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Super Sepiroth
As for IX vs. VII and VIII, most of real life friends hate FFIX. They too think that it's childish, though I think that has more to do with the deformed character models. ::shrugs:: I haven't played enough of IX (or VIII, for that matter), to really have an opinion. However, you say that IX is 'childish' like Kingdom Hearts, to which I must say that Kingdom Hearts is the greatest thing to ever happen on this planet. IX is lucky to be compared to it. :D
I can't agree with that at all. Final Fantasy IX did not have a childish storyline at all. Kingdom Hearts was childish by far, but thats okay, we all know everyone wants to kick ass with Micky Donald and Goofy deep down inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by hhr1dluv
When did I say a childish storyline?Quote:
Final Fantasy IX did not have a childish storyline at all
All i mean is stuff like the character design and stuff seemed very kids program style, 7 was kinda anime style, 8 was more realistic, and 9 kinda hovers somewhere in between, like its not sure which it wants to be. thats just my take on it, maybe someone else knows how to express what i mean better than i can :S lol
^Hey, Golden Boko was referring to what hsdog11n00bblwe's friends said about FFIX. Not what you said.
Comparing FFIX to Kingdom Hearts is like comparing Steiner to Quina. FFIX pwns and KH does not.
The AMV graphics where a bit Chibi, but the ingame graphics where fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Sepiroth
Besides in levels of importance for games it goes:
1. Gameplay
2. Story
3. Graphics
Not liking a game because of the graphics is really not a good idea, unless the graphics get in the way of gameplay (as in, slow the frame rate or something)
I never said anything about IX's storyline! Nor did my friends for that matter. Where did you guys get that idea? 0.o To be honest, I can sort of see where my friends are coming from. None of them are really serious gamers (nor am I...that much), and when one goes from "wowz, we're bombing a reactor," and "we are having a sword fight before engaging in teen angst," to "let's jump rope with the hippo," it doesn't seem quite the same. Let me reiterate: I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH FFIX. I HAVE NOT PLAYED ENOUGH OF IT TO HAVE A PROBLEM.
WAAAAHCAPSLOCK. The only thing I will say about my experience with FFIX is that this game seems to have many more comic and/or light parts.
Whosiewhatie? What'd you do to my fangirlish name? As for theQuote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
'n00b' reference, I think that the day I stop being a n00b part of me might die a little. :p
IMO, Quina's Theme > 90% of character themes. Hence, Quina>Steiner by default. Hence, KH>FFIX, by your logic. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by daggertrepe
Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
The best sword fighting mini-game ever was in FFIX. And yeah, FFIX is fricking hilarious.Quote:
I never said anything about IX's storyline! Nor did my friends for that matter. Where did you guys get that idea? 0.o To be honest, I can sort of see where my friends are coming from. None of them are really serious gamers (nor am I...that much), and when one goes from "wowz, we're bombing a reactor," and "we are having a sword fight before engaging in teen angst," to "let's jump rope with the hippo," it doesn't seem quite the same. Let me reiterate: I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH FFIX. I HAVE NOT PLAYED ENOUGH OF IT TO HAVE A PROBLEM.
WAAAAHCAPSLOCK. The only thing I will say about my experience with FFIX is that this game seems to have many more comic and/or light parts.
Btw, you said your friends thought FFIX was childish. That implies they thought the storyline was childish as that is what truly defines such things.
Fangirlish? I thought it was just a splodge on a keyboard. :pQuote:
Whosiewhatie? What'd you do to my fangirlish name? As for the
'n00b' reference, I think that the day I stop being a n00b part of me might die a little.
Quina's cool but Steiner is God.Quote:
IMO, Quina's Theme > 90% of character themes. Hence, Quina>Steiner by default. Hence, KH>FFIX, by your logic.
Hence:
Final Fantasy IX >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KH
FFIX was oldschool..
a last encore for the old fans..
Final Fantasy IX had more lighthearted moments than its predecessors because of its settings and references to previous Final Fantasy games. I think it is obvious that Final Fantasy VIII, for example, had less lighthearted moments than Final Fantasy IX.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Sepiroth
Yes, Steiner is god, so FFIX is better than KH. Thank you, vivisteiner.
And roogle, I agree. Which makes FFIX even more awesome. The mushy moments of the game make me happy on the inside. (Secretly, of course.)
I think a lot of the seriousness in 7 and 8 are what make it great, sure you have a few jokes to break the tension, but you can actually imagine a lot of the story (especially 8, if in an alternate reality lol) actually happening. With FFIX i don't find it all that believable tbh.Quote:
Final Fantasy IX had more lighthearted moments than its predecessors because of its settings and references to previous Final Fantasy games
"oh yeah we're going to risk full scale war to rescue a princess thats not even from our kingdom"
you see what i mean?
Did you miss like the entire storyline? They never went to war over Garnet! Brahne when to war to gather the Crystals since she knew of their destructive power, which is very believable. How many times have countries went to war over resources to make themselves more powerful?
Did you miss the whole of the first disc? Regent Cid sent Zidane and co to kidnap Garnet because they suspected Brahne of something (mainly due to her meetings with Kuja). Regent Cid did this because he and the late king of Alexandria were best buds. and Kidnapping a princess will be seen as an act of war.Quote:
Did you miss like the entire storyline? They never went to war over Garnet! Brahne when to war to gather the Crystals since she knew of their destructive power, which is very believable.
it is after that that Brahne decides to engage the plan of the Crystals
Don't mention ze voar! lolQuote:
How many times have countries went to war over resources to make themselves more powerful?
Brahne already had a plan for war. She just used Garnet's kidnapping as an excuse to start one. That's why Garnet left - she felt her mother was becoming a crazy, fat, ugly, fat, ugly, crazy, fat warmonger.
Regent Cid sent Zidane because he felt something was wrong, and he thought war was going to brew (he was right), he thought she would be safer in Lindblum, because he didn't know about the Black Mages or the Eilodons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Sepiroth
This wasn't the cause of the war though, and if it was, then you've missed the whole first disc.
Brahne didn't like Garent running away because she had the Eilodons, and Alexandria's pennant.
Brahne attacked, Burmecia, and Cleyra before Lindblum, because the plan was to get the Eilodons and the Pennants the entire time.
Garnet mentioned Kuja showing up a year before the storyline's beginning, meaning they planned this war a year before she ran away.
This part of the story line seemed pretty self explanatory. :P
Th reason Cid kidnapped Garnet was because he feared for her safety. He could smell a rat from all these dodgy dealings going on. It was the most wise move to remove Garnet at that time. Otherwise Brahne would have had direct and easy access to her Ediolons. Not to mention that Regent Cid promised Garnet's father as much. Regent Cid was an uncle to Garnet and it was only natural he did what he did. With communications between him and Brahne breaking off and the kingdom-kingdom atmosphere getting decidedly chilly, it was the only sensible thing he could do.
Quote:
Regent Cid: "I once promised your father, that should anything
happen, I would protect you. We've known about the
disturbances in Alexandria for some time. But had we acted
directly, it would've started a war. So, I asked Baku for
help. He and I go way back. The play was the perfect cover
to enter Alexandria and get you out. No one would suspect
Lindblum was behind it. We wereforced to take
action, because we knew Alexandria would never seek our
help. I'm relieved we were able to get you here."
Here's the quote.
To be honest, I think my gamer friends felt that it was the monkey-tailed hero, the cute black mage, the knight that crashes into the castle wall, the jump roping hippo, and the generally deformed characters that made them think of FFIX as childish, probably because the game seemed like a cartoon. I don't think they took story into account.
As for my user name, it's Harry Potter related. I no longer like HP that much, so it's a bit outdated. You all get cookies if you can guess what it's referring to.
Okay, so Steiner is God. Kingdom Hearts consists of the people who believe in God. Without them, God would be powerless. Hence, KH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Steiner/FFIX. :tongue:
Your logical progression of thought fails.Quote:
Originally Posted by hhr1dluv
hardcore FFIX fans here thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by Ouch!Your logical progression of thought fails.Quote:
Originally Posted by hhr1dluv
steiner = god
.. a video character made by people while
people =/= god
so
video game characters =/= god
which makes
fans = baka :tongue:
Your casual use of popular Japanese terms within the English language depress me on multiple levels. ; ;
Anyway, your progression of thought is logical. The previous example... not so much.
I wasn't saying that was the cause of the war, I said he was risking a war. But i see your point of thinking it was inevitable anyways lolQuote:
Regent Cid sent Zidane because he felt something was wrong, and he thought war was going to brew (he was right), he thought she would be safer in Lindblum, because he didn't know about the Black Mages or the Eilodons.
No. Just no.Quote:
Originally Posted by hhr1dluv
Steiner = God
Ergo...
Final Fantasy IX >>>>>>>> Anything
I certainly hope that your friends have never enjoyed a Legend of Zelda game or a Mario game because they're a lot more childish than Final Fantasy IX is. If you want to make superficial judgements based on the appearances of the characters (i.e. looking like cartoon characters) then you're really missing out on the real gem of a game that is FFIX.Quote:
Originally Posted by hhr1dluv
Yeah, I wasn't sure of how to counter Vivisteiner's example, so I tried that one. :tongue: I suppose I could have said something like, "There is no God! Waaaaaa!" That seems unnecessarily inflammatory.
It all comes down to my liking KH better than FFIX. I like KH more because it was the game that got me interested in games other than platformers.
Fine: KH = God the Father. Steiner = God the Son. Rest of FF universe = The Holy Ghost.
EDIT: I REPEAT...I AM NOT THE ONE WHO HAS A PROBLEM WITH FFIX. I have not played enough of it to have a conclusive say about any aspect of it. I feel like everyone keeps assuming that I hate it just because I was mentioning what others have thought about it.
And what's wrong with someone thinking a game is childish? Honestly? I can enjoy a game plenty and still think of it as childish. We're all negatively connoting this word for no reason.
^By saying its childish it means that the story (generally) doesn't deal with deep issues in a mature way. Thats just not true for FFIX.
Okay, fine. I'll admit that the word childish is often used in a dismissive manner, and usually describes something as silly or immature.
However, childish also refers to something that befits a child. As a huge fan of children's literature (I'm 21), I tend not to immediately dismiss something as weak or silly just because it's intended for children. So, I do not automatically take the word 'childish' as insulting.
Just so people can stop making assumptions about my feelings toward FFIX, here's what I actually think. I have played FFIX up to Burmecia. I enjoyed what I played, though I did not enjoy it as much as I enjoyed FFX or FFVII. Obviously, I have not finished the game, so it's very possible that I could grow to like it a lot more. I remember the game seeming a lot more lighthearted on the surface, but it still had serious parts. But then, ALL Final Fantasies have lighthearted and serious moments.
Yes. The Beatrix/Steiner/Vivi/Freya storyline was VERY deep. My gosh, I didn't fully understand until recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
Yeah, some 'childrens' literature is awesome. Just because its targeted at children doesn't mean its silly. Although FFIX isnt targeted at children.Quote:
However, childish also refers to something that befits a child. As a huge fan of children's literature (I'm 21), I tend not to immediately dismiss something as weak or silly just because it's intended for children. So, I do not automatically take the word 'childish' as insulting.
You should play it some more! Burmecia is right at the beginning.Quote:
Just so people can stop making assumptions about my feelings toward FFIX, here's what I actually think. I have played FFIX up to Burmecia. I enjoyed what I played, though I did not enjoy it as much as I enjoyed FFX or FFVII. Obviously, I have not finished the game, so it's very possible that I could grow to like it a lot more. I remember the game seeming a lot more lighthearted on the surface, but it still had serious parts. But then, ALL Final Fantasies have lighthearted and serious moments.
FFIX is more lighthearted than most, but I enjoyed that aspect of it. As you said, all FFs have elements of both.
Yeah! Every time I play it through I learn something new.Quote:
Yes. The Beatrix/Steiner/Vivi/Freya storyline was VERY deep. My gosh, I didn't fully understand until recently.
I think FFIX had its depressing moments too :P Burmecia, Alexandria's and Limblum's destruction still depress the crap out of me :P
No mention of the Black Waltz #3?
Thats personally my favorite FF IX Scene.
Dont make me cry. Please. Ive done enough of it already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboko
That FMV was sick. I love it when Vivi does this:Quote:
No mention of the Black Waltz #3?
Thats personally my favorite FF IX Scene.
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare...698/ffix21.jpg
Who? Who has actually stated "the only reason I liked FFVII is because I thought Sephiroth looked cool"? When I made a thread asking why people liked it, the #1 reason was STORY.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
This is an attempt to explain why people cannot possibly have a different opinion than you do for legitimate reasons. The inability to relate to different people and perspectives is a clear indicator of underdevelopment as a human being.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
First off, the argument can go either way about the two games, but the loves story was featured prominently in both. I'm not going to try to put up an argument about VIII's, but I will say that the game makes it clear from the very beginning that Squall is a character who says one thing but thinks another.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover
Also, I can understand how you might think Zidane/Garland scene is believable, but the facts clearly go the other way to me. Up until the point the screen went black, Zidane had been acting the same way he had throughout the entire game, defiant and sarcastic to the bad guys, then all of a sudden he starts asking questions.
And I just wanted to mention, Cloud got out of the lifestream when he finally "found" himself and, as MLK would say, the truth set him "free". And yes, in VIII they needed the power of love and friendship to stay together at the end, but that worked, because Laguna was a corny guy.
Finally, I just want to say that your standards for defining a child's movie/game are ungrounded. PLENTY of dark moments happen in Disney movies, Bambi's mother dies, and that was pretty damn sad.
Your kill counts are a little off, too. More people died in the Shinra building than in the entire game of FFVI. Sorry, I had to get that out.
Remember Garland and his talk of memories? The most plausible explanation is that this encounter triggered some of those memories that lay dormant within Zidane's brain. When Zidane told the story of the person who looked for his home, that was a metaphor for himself. The opening theme tune is 'The Place I'll Return to Someday'. There is no doubt that upon arriving in Terra he would have felt some strong connection - something which he knew he could not deny. That caused confusion in his mind as well as the grim realisation that Garland was being truthful. It was a true revelation - the home he was looking for all this time was Terra. And he didnt like what he heard about it and himself. The build up to that sudden transformation in character started early. I would say it started at the Black Mage Village when Zidane first talks about his quest to find where he belonged.Quote:
Also, I can understand how you might think Zidane/Garland scene is believable, but the facts clearly go the other way to me. Up until the point the screen went black, Zidane had been acting the same way he had throughout the entire game, defiant and sarcastic to the bad guys, then all of a sudden he starts asking questions.
Good point. I remember having nightmares about Bambi's mother dying. Nevertheless, it would be extremely difficult to argue that Bambi deals with issues that are anywhere as complex as FFIX. Hell, I would say that FFIX is the most mature Final Fantasy that I have played, thematically. Save perhaps FFXII.Quote:
Finally, I just want to say that your standards for defining a child's movie/game are ungrounded. PLENTY of dark moments happen in Disney movies, Bambi's mother dies, and that was pretty damn sad.
I haven't played FFVIII enough to really argue this. My memory of this was poor. All that seemed to happen was that one minute Squall didnt give a damn about her, and the next he was head over heels in love. Rinoa also pissed me off from the start with possibly the worst opening line ever.Quote:
First off, the argument can go either way about the two games, but the loves story was featured prominently in both. I'm not going to try to put up an argument about VIII's, but I will say that the game makes it clear from the very beginning that Squall is a character who says one thing but thinks another.
While I wouldnt really go with his arguments so much. It is true that people are shallow when being prejudiced agains FFIX. Prejudices against the art style, the tail, the setting etc were very common and extraordinarily stupid.Quote:
This is an attempt to explain why people cannot possibly have a different opinion than you do for legitimate reasons. The inability to relate to different people and perspectives is a clear indicator of underdevelopment as a human being.
FFVII also had the advantage of a massive advertising campaign, being the first 3D final fantasy and being the first Final Fantasy for a brand new generation of gamers. It is a widely held theory that people's favourite Final Fantasy tends to be their first one.
The whole Alexandrian army are women! whats up with that!
Not being sexist- just wondering where the men are lol
^The men are under the command of Adelbert Steiner! A well equipped, organised and powerful army, the Knights of Pluto are truly a force to be reckoned with!
The fact that they are slightly outnumbered is of no consequence because each one of them could take on five other women soldiers at least.
I thought the knights of pluto were just in charge of the protection of the royal family? we never see them in Cerlya or anything :SQuote:
^The men are under the command of Adelbert Steiner! A well equipped, organised and powerful army, the Knights of Pluto are truly a force to be reckoned with!
The fact that they are slightly outnumbered is of no consequence because each one of them could take on five other women soldiers at least.
^Well protection bassically means they do what Brahne tells them to do. If protection involves fighting wars then they would do that. They are not bodyguards or anything. The reason you dont see them in Cleyra was because they were disbanded when Steiner, the Captain, left. Beatrix and her knights took over full mantle of doing what the Queen wanted.
aaah i see lol. And then Beatrix was a bitch for a bit before being nice lol! all makes sense now! lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Way to ignore the intention of my post there. :p
It was a response to this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Sepiroth
I was saying that's hardly a good reason to judge what games better.
And as far as people liking the game for stupid reasons like Sephiroth looking cool and his sword, there aren't that many floating around this site.
But other sites I've seen many people admit that, in addition to personal experience thats why a lot of people like the game.
No one ever said people can't like it for different reasons.
I'm simply saying Sales isn't really the greatest judge of what game is better. :p
I always thought that IX's sales were down because the PS2 had just come out? I wonder, did the same sort of thing affect XII's sales?
Also, was/is there a sort of rivalry between Steiner and Beatrix? It must be weird having two separate captains for two separate factions of knights or whatever. :cool:
From what I did play of IX, I remember really enjoying clanking around as Steiner at the very beginning, looking for the other knights. Actually, something I liked a lot about IX is how you take control of so many different characters right from the beginning. You're Zidane, Vivi, and Steiner while you're still doing intro stuff. I always appreciate multiple perspectives in games. FFX was a bit disappointing, since you only get to play as Tidus and then as Yuna briefly. :mad:
Lord I've been avoiding this thread for ages... (I'm also ignoring your slams to VI Bolivar) IX was at one time my 2nd favorite main line FF. A second playthrough and the addition of a few other FF titles, it has dropped to my fourth possibly fifth favorite slot. Course, I'm due for another playthrough but I'm going in order so I need to finish VII (playing right now) and VIII first.
Overall I feel IX is a superb game and its my favorite of the PSX generation. This does not mean I don't believe its flawless. I will agree that the battle system is slower than previous installments (though I disagree with you Bolivar about VII being fast... its average at best IMO) but to its defence, the ealier games didn't have either loading times or a fourth party member eating up processing power. I still feel IV is the slowest of the ATB systems though. Though I really never cared for the skill system. Of anything, it lacks originalty outside of the Trance system but I felt it was a well polished and tweaked version of the battle system. Not a drastic change, but I feel it plays quite smoothly especially considering it doesn't use a "clone" system like the previous installments ;)
Its design I like to think of as "dark fairy" tale cause to be honest, cartoony mean something looks cute and that only applies to Vivi and he's cute in a rather gothic way. I personally enjoy the art style but alot of people either don't understand it or appreciate it. Fact is, outside its peculiar art style IX is the darkest game in the series. The subject matter of IX is much darker than the likes of X, VII and even VI and it does have the highest body count (they didn't mean it literally shown Bolivar ;)) with every major capital wiped out hell the opening of the game shows the faint memory of Garnet watching her homeland and people destroyed, by her future lover no less. Hell most of the planet is unihabitable to begin with at the start of the game. Its like VI opening up in the Ruined World.
We're talking about a game where artificail souls are made to become weapons and the discussion of what constitutes as human (or as close to human as you get in the IX world) or just naturally alive. IX takes on a philisophical debate that most won't go down. VII had the "cycle of life" theme which was good though a little too hippie for my taste. VIII fails to touch on a myriad of controversial subjects like war and child soldiers (closest we get is a monologue from Squall before the Edea assassination mission) IX touches on what Life is, expressed by the fact that each character represents a path one takes to bring meaning to their lives. Quina is physical indulgence, Freya seeks love, Steiner is duty, Amarant is pride(psychological indulgence), Eiko seeks companionship, Garnet seeks personal freedom, Zidane is utilitarianism, and Vivi is the seeker of a path. The meaning of Life theme in IX is expressed rather well through the personal stories of each of its characters.
Not since FFV has an entire cast of characters been important or have a real reason to be there from either a story standpoint or an alligorical one. IX lacks some originality but most FFs do, but I do feel the original elements in IX are well crafted and wonderful.
Though concerning its love story... I didn't like it. It was a little too cliche for my taste. I never really felt like Garnet and Zidane had real conflict and the romance was pretty sappy. Sorry Sakeguchi, but IX still proves you can't write love stories (don't worry though, Nojima write and even more cliched and terrible love story in the game that follows :p). I do have some personal issues with IX (mostly concerning Zidane's plot twist and Garnet as a character) but I do feel IX is much better polished than its predecessor. In comparison to VII I feel it comes to personal choice since their about even in terms of quality. For me, IX is better cause it has more elements I look for in an FF than VII.
BTW Bolivar, someday you will have to lend me your golden copy of VII bestowed upon you by the gods. I'm halfway through the near perfect 1st Disc (before I get to the bad part of the game, namely the 2nd and 3rd Discs) and I still feel that VII, in terms of quality and depth, feels like a well polished 16-bit RPG (Like FFVI and CT) in a 32-bit package. I'm still waiting for this "Revolution" you speak of. ;)
Most definitely. At the beginning of the game. That rivalry sort of peters out when Steiner joins Zidane though, which is very early on.Quote:
Also, was/is there a sort of rivalry between Steiner and Beatrix?
Wouldnt totally agree with that. Zidane has too much empathy to be truly utilitarianistic IMO. What he did at the end of the game, going to save Kuja seemes like a decision from the heart rather than one from the head. I also disagree with your opinions on the love story etc.Quote:
Zidane is utilitarianism,
But that was a very nice post.
In hindsight, I think compassion is a better path to represent Zidane actually. You're right, Zidane is somewhat selfish.;)
I fight with most people on these forums concerning love stories cause I feel most of them are pretty generic and there for the sake of being there. But that doesn't mean we can't agree to disagree, right?
^Im right your wrong. Im God and your not. And there is nothing you can do about it! :mad2:
Thats fine, I'm considered to be the Devil anyway...Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
I want to know what really started that rivalry. Didn't he like take out her eye or something? :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
You will always be less powerful than me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoThats fine, I'm considered to be the Devil anyway...Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
They never say that Steiner took her eye out. I doubt he did since I assume Beatrix lost her eye whilst fighting enemies of Alexandria. I think the rivalry just stems from the two of them both wanting their army of knights to be the most powerful in Alexandria.Quote:
I want to know what really started that rivalry. Didn't he like take out her eye or something? :(
There’s worlds of difference between a single dark moment and a continuous line of deaths.Quote:
Finally, I just want to say that your standards for defining a child's movie/game are ungrounded. PLENTY of dark moments happen in Disney movies, Bambi's mother dies, and that was pretty damn sad.
A single dark moment in a children-style movie or game would be Simba’s pop biting it. Or Littlefoot’s mother.
FFIX does not just have a few deaths...it has untold numbers of death and two practical genocides. First the living Burmecians all fled to Cleyra and that place was promptly wiped from the face of the planet. We know a few survived but not many.
Then we know every single Black Mage will die and judging by their numbers, we’re talking hundreds if not thousands. I view it as genocide as they’re made to die by their very design but I guess it can be disputed if it actually was.
Then there’s all the other regular people who were killed throughout the game. Add that to the original people of Terra who all died with Pandemonium. Wait, that’s 3 genocides. Wait, is it genocide when you kill all the souls of a race? Well, I guess it should count.
This is not a children’s movie I’m afraid. And if it is, someone please fetch this poor lad a therapist. He’ll need one.
Well, it's been quite a while since I've played VII and VIII, and so my opinion may not be the most accurate there is. However, I would just like to post it here.
I concentrate a lot on character development and plotline when I'm playing RPGs. Although VII was rather enjoyable, I didn't exactly like having to tolerate Cloud's ongoing lamentations about his uselessness and Sephiroth's rather annoying clones. I was rather glad that Aerith/Aeris died, as I found her rather annoying. In fact, I found character development had slacked off in this game.
As for VIII, I also found that enjoyable. The system was different to the previous Final Fantasy instalments, and the new names for magic excited me even more. However, character development was still lacking somewhat, as most characters were, although different, rather simplistic in personality. I also felt that Ultimecia was just thrown in as a villian, and I do admit that the romance between Squall and Rinoa was a little rushed.
With Final Fantasy IX, I guess the only problem with its popularity is the fact that it was released just before the PS2 came out. Although I don't mind the odd steampunk and futuristic feel of video games, I felt that IX was better reflecting the original FF's feel. Then again, I am a rather avid fan of the theme of fantasy, so my say may be rather exaggerated.
I was immensely pleased with character development; it was complex yet understandable and more realistic than VIII's. I myself am rather fond of Quina, Steiner and Vivi; Quina had the undivided curiousity that a younger daredevil might have, Steiner was loyal to the end (although I haven't really met any tremendously loyal people these days) and Vivi was just...Vivi, with the naivety of a nine-year-old. To me, a majority of the characters acted their age, which I found was just spectacular. Yes, the graphics may have protrayed the characters slightly younger than they should, but I wouldn't call it chibi.
...And that's pretty much my opinion of the things I liked with the three aforementioned games and my comparisons to them. Feel free to correct me.
Forsaken Lover, I'm just going to get this out of the way real quick and say this: The Lion King is 1 + 1/2 hours long, Final Fantasy IX is a 35-hour experience. Didn't all the outcasts/hyenas try to slaughter the entire race of lions/lionesses? Well, in addition to Simba's pops, that's one parent's death and one attempted genocide, that might actually be a higher ratio of "dark-scenes : hours", if that's really the way you wanna look at it.
And yo, Kanno, what's up with all the direct references to me in your post? Well, in the spirit of tradition, I'll just say this:
1) Again, compare Ice in FFVII to Ice in FFVIII or IX. Or compare the way your ATB bars move to the way you just kinda sit there with everyone full for the second half of FFVI (what a terrible game...)
2) Dude, Garnet's cute, Zidane's cute, Steiner's a cute rusty knight, Freyas a warm and cuddly rat, Quina's a cute gourmand, Eiko's cute, what game did you play!?!?!?!
3) There was philosophy in the others. While VIII strayed away from the obvious choice of war and child soldiers, it heavily dealt with the question "what is the right way to live?" or "what is the right way to deal with others?", which I think is more substantive in the end, keeping the obvious choices at bay. VII also exposed some serious contradictions in society and posed questions on our relationship to the planet. But that doesn't make you wrong - IX definately had alot of
substantive stuff in there.
4) I agree again that it hasn't been since V that the entire cast of characters actually mattered, and alot. I do have to say this: I feel that out of the entire main series, FFIX has the least amount of flaws out of any Final Fantasy game, or at least is the most well-rounded in the series.
5) I'm glad you see things my way concerning the love story. Too many of the pessimists in your camp happen to overlook this while parading IX around the internet as a triumph over Tetsuya Nomura.
6) Concerning my golden copy of FFVII bestowed upon me by the gods, I lost the second disk, but I'm sure you could get it from anyone who happened to write a review for it in 1997.
7) I actually know exactly what you mean (what's up with all this agreement stuff all-of-a-sudden?) about FFVII feeling like a polished 16-bit RPG. That brings me to yet another honor I like to bestow to it, as it's "The last of the old, and the first of the new". For example, it was the last game to have a blue statistics window all along the bottom of the battle screen. However, the sheer amount of text alone, even in a single line by a character, was very distinct from 16-bit RPGs. "Nobodey lives in the slums because they want to. It's like this train, it can only go where its rails take it" exemplifies how this text revolution was not just quantitative, but qualitative. RPG protagonists simply didn't use metaphors for social commentary. The biggest way in which it shattered 16-bit RPGs were the triggering of events. Beforehand, characters could only walk up to eachother and speak to initiate an interaction. Setzer's Sephiroth-esque leap down to Celes was a huge jump (no pun intended), but in VII you had people poppin up ontop of helicopters, and jumping down to catch ropes to climb up onto airships. On one hand, the dialogue and character development doesn't go as far as later titles, so it does feel like that, but in other ways it did so many things that simply could not have been done on a Super NES. First of the old, last of the new, son....
Anyway I just want to say I'm glad to see that this thread has gone on for 7 pages, that this particular topic is getting the attention that it deserves. Like i've said already, I feel these are the 3 best entries in the series and it's always a tossup as to how I would actually rank them.
I'm off to Groznyj Grad to take care of some unfinished business before I gotta head back to Liberty City tomorrow.
No the heyenas needed the lionesss to hunt food for them. They heyenas didn't do anything until Simba reappeared.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
You're my special sparring buddy :love:Quote:
And yo, Kanno, what's up with all the direct references to me in your post? Well, in the spirit of tradition, I'll just say this:
I don't understand what you mean about VI but I do recognize the difference in comparison to later games, I mostly blame it on the SFX department wanting to make things more spectacular looking.Quote:
1) Again, compare Ice in FFVII to Ice in FFVIII or IX. Or compare the way your ATB bars move to the way you just kinda sit there with everyone full for the second half of FFVI (what a terrible game...)
Cuteness is all in the eye of the beholder... besides it took me till Cleyra to realize what exactly Freya was...Quote:
2) Dude, Garnet's cute, Zidane's cute, Steiner's a cute rusty knight, Freyas a warm and cuddly rat, Quina's a cute gourmand, Eiko's cute, what game did you play!?!?!?!
Though I feel VIII did have some moral philosophy to it, I just didn't feel like it was as strongly told as VII or IX. Though VII does have some social commentary, it dropped halfway through the story (after Rocket Town its never really touched upon again) I feel the theme of Life and man's relationship to nature was told more strongly. IX touches on a few other themes as well but its the theme of "The Meaning of Life" thats held throughout the storyand the strongest. To me, VIII has a few themes but I never felt it was told as a major focus like the other two.Quote:
3) There was philosophy in the others. While VIII strayed away from the obvious choice of war and child soldiers, it heavily dealt with the question "what is the right way to live?" or "what is the right way to deal with others?", which I think is more substantive in the end, keeping the obvious choices at bay. VII also exposed some serious contradictions in society and posed questions on our relationship to the planet. But that doesn't make you wrong - IX definately had alot of
substantive stuff in there.
Glad we can actually agree on something...Quote:
4) I agree again that it hasn't been since V that the entire cast of characters actually mattered, and alot. I do have to say this: I feel that out of the entire main series, FFIX has the least amount of flaws out of any Final Fantasy game, or at least is the most well-rounded in the series.
Surprised we agreed on this but seriously, I feel love stories should be in the background so when it starts to take center stage like in IX and X, I get annoyed especially since they were both so damn predictable. The only two I tolerate is VI and VIIs. VI is predictable but its told sparingly and it is associated with one of the most memorable scenes in FF history. VII is never defined and there is no clear outcome. Its lack of conclusion feels more realistic to me.Quote:
5) I'm glad you see things my way concerning the love story. Too many of the pessimists in your camp happen to overlook this while parading IX around the internet as a triumph over Tetsuya Nomura.
I didn't agree with the reviewers then and 11 years later I still don't. :p To be honest I feel the first disc is a masterpiece but its during the course of the second disc that everything falls apart for me in both story and gameplay.Quote:
6) Concerning my golden copy of FFVII bestowed upon me by the gods, I lost the second disk, but I'm sure you could get it from anyone who happened to write a review for it in 1997.
I agree that its the little nuances that make both VI and VII stand out (as well as all the FFs actually), from VI's variety of sprite expressions and wonderful use of music to heighten a story scene; to VII's expansion of gameplay options (snowboarding, CPR mini-game, Chocobo Breeding) and a greater use of tech space to creat larger more detailed worlds. The early games had to tell dramatic moments with very little text and restricted movements but VII was actually a start saying such things in a more relaxed manner.Quote:
7) I actually know exactly what you mean (what's up with all this agreement stuff all-of-a-sudden?) about FFVII feeling like a polished 16-bit RPG. That brings me to yet another honor I like to bestow to it, as it's "The last of the old, and the first of the new". For example, it was the last game to have a blue statistics window all along the bottom of the battle screen. However, the sheer amount of text alone, even in a single line by a character, was very distinct from 16-bit RPGs. "Nobodey lives in the slums because they want to. It's like this train, it can only go where its rails take it" exemplifies how this text revolution was not just quantitative, but qualitative. RPG protagonists simply didn't use metaphors for social commentary. The biggest way in which it shattered 16-bit RPGs were the triggering of events. Beforehand, characters could only walk up to eachother and speak to initiate an interaction. Setzer's Sephiroth-esque leap down to Celes was a huge jump (no pun intended), but in VII you had people poppin up ontop of helicopters, and jumping down to catch ropes to climb up onto airships. On one hand, the dialogue and character development doesn't go as far as later titles, so it does feel like that, but in other ways it did so many things that simply could not have been done on a Super NES. First of the old, last of the new, son....
"Son"? Haven't been called that in years... I'll buy you a drink if I ever meet you in person and we can discuss this. :cool:
Steiner’s a self-righteous fat guy in rusty armor.Quote:
2) Dude, Garnet's cute, Zidane's cute, Steiner's a cute rusty knight, Freyas a warm and cuddly rat, Quina's a cute gourmand, Eiko's cute, what game did you play!?!?!?!
Fraya is a giant rodent. And not a cute rodent like a bunnygirl...hm...bunnygirls. Wait. Forget that.
Quina is jus.t...it’s Quina. Not cute, not ugly...just Quina.
I understand Colonel Volgin is expecting you in his quarters. :)Quote:
I'm off to Groznyj Grad to take care of some unfinished business before I gotta head back to Liberty City tomorrow.
Dude, when that game came out it blew peoples' minds like some Alabama Kush. And the 2nd disc, man, that's when so many great events happen. The Reunion, the execution, the lifestream, the return to Midgar, and of course the retro-throwback of having a globe-spanning scramble for the crystals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Hmmm... my associates and I use it all the time. But about that drink, word up, son.Quote:
"Son"? Haven't been called that in years... I'll buy you a drink if I ever meet you in person and we can discuss this. :cool:
From what I heard, that's explained in the UOG. IIRC, Beatrix was the best knight on the entire kingdom, but then Stainer defeated her in a training combat(by luck, I believe).Quote:
Originally Posted by daggertrepe
After that, Beatrix felt humiliated, and then, the rivalry started.
But he didn't take out her eye.
I recall it being MEntioned that Steiner and Beatrix were relatively equal.
Of course I could be wrong on that count.
You mean the 2nd disc where the whole plot falls apart and the game starts handing you broken materia that makes combat so easy its a chore? Yeah I remember it. Of my group of friends back then, I don't remember many of us being all too impressed. The Elementary school kids were floored but I don't remember anyone my age, who was in the RPG genre before VII came out, being floored by the experience. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Hmmm... my associates and I use it all the time. But about that drink, word up, son.[/quote]Quote:
"Son"? Haven't been called that in years... I'll buy you a drink if I ever meet you in person and we can discuss this. :cool:
My associates and I use terminology that would most likely get me banned from here so I'll just say "good day sir" :p
OMG, really!?Quote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalFrom what I heard, that's explained in the UOG. IIRC, Beatrix was the best knight on the entire kingdom, but then Stainer defeated her in a training combat(by luck, I believe).Quote:
Originally Posted by daggertrepe
After that, Beatrix felt humiliated, and then, the rivalry started.
But he didn't take out her eye.
Man, I wanna read an English Ultimania. Its no fair that an FFIX devotee like me should be left in the dark.
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but Steiner could pwn Beatrix entirely. Period. Well, combat wise. :greenie:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
The first two discs beautrix pwned everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by daggertrepeI know this is an unpopular opinion, but Steiner could pwn Beatrix entirely. Period. Well, combat wise. :greenie:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
I know that was a right pain in the arse! What was that move called that brought you down to 1HP?Quote:
The first two discs beautrix pwned everyone.
And did you notice- she has pretty simmilar moves to Stinier (all the Sword Art stuff)
There is no english Ultimania. It was never translated. But if you go to the FFIX forums of GameFAQs, I'm sure that sooner or later, you will find some people who have the book, and can tell you more about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
IX is WAY better than VII. Don't know about VIII because after trying VII when it first came out and thought "Um . . . this is NOT Final Fantasy!" I was reluctant to try any new FF games game out until I heard everyone saying how like the "old games" IX was. I played it and loved it! I still haven't bothered with giving VII a go.
After VI, they should have started a new series called Final Sci-Fi and left my FF alone. :P
After having played 7,8 and 9 for several years, Ive come to the conclusion that 9 has the best replay value.
So as of now I think 9 is much better than 7 and 8.
7 - Play once and thats it. Story and gameplay are meh but they're alright.
8- Great atmosphere to play in (music, characters, setting)
9- I agree with it having the best replay value since it puts you in the action right away (with the princess being kidnapped)
Also the music fits well with the game.
Well, let's see. While VII is on my top 3, IX is my all-time favorite game. (What I'm about to say is very contradictory, so be forewarned) FFIX is very hard to get into if you haven't played any FF earlier than VII, as it evokes a sense of nostalgia, and playing X always makes me want to play VI or IV afterwards. That being said, IX was my first FF and I absolutely loved it. But that's just me, I prefer medieval settings to futuristic settings any day.
IX, in my eyes, is the true Final Fantasy VII in that it feels more at home with FFI-Vi than where it is, snuggled between a sci-fi game and a game based on Japanese culture.
If FFVII is not like the "old games", neither is FFVI. Magitech Armors, factories, experiments, robots, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastian
The "old games" stoped at FFV, not FFVI.
FFIX is great, end of story. Vivi + Kuja + Garland + Brahne + Garnet = amazingly written characters.
Although, no character in the history of ever will be better than Freya. EVER.
There. Corrected for clarification.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Rabbits
It wasn't a Kitase game unlike VII, VIII, X, X-2, VIIC, XIII.
I'll just throw this up as a fairly simple answer for Super Sephiroth.
As a British gamer, I would expect FFIX to bounce off you somewhat. It's full of references and nods to games we were not supposed to have played at that point (other than through emulation... naughty me!) so don't listen to anyone outwardly trying to give you any crap for it. As much as I love FFIX for its "oldskool FF pastiche" feel, many of my peers just didn't get it. They thought Vivi was totally original and when they saw me playing FFI they were all "Wow it's Vivi!" and I'd say "No it's not! Vivi's one of these!"
That was a long time ago of course; a lot of people in the UK have actually played the first six games now, to what seems to be quite a mixed reception. DoS wasn't available for very long, III got the "We don't know what all the fuss was about" treatment and IV, V and VI on the PSX were reviled for their slow loading times and dated graphics... I think I only saw the GBA versions on shelves for a couple of months as well.
So FFIX is a game that people where I come from will either love for its more magical feel, or not get at all for being based on games they didn't play.
*snip*Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion4444
Will you stop insulting people? -Ko
I loved everything about Freya's character design, except how her face was the exact same color as her hankerchief thing. It made her face kinda confusing. Well, until after the Beatrix scene, then it became fairly obvious xD
I'd disagree. The Magitech Armors, and factories where actually a smaller portion of the game, and definitely not the most memorable sections.Quote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalIf FFVII is not like the "old games", neither is FFVI. Magitech Armors, factories, experiments, robots, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastian
The "old games" stoped at FFV, not FFVI.
whats happened to my thread? lol its been moved.
I suppose what a lot of people have been trying to say is that theres 2 different sorta FFs (pre-PS2), the old school NES and SNES ones and the PS ones. Coming from a generation where i was only just old enough to understand and play 7 and 8, to me they are THE final fantasies, what i know and love. and then 9 goes back to the old school roots from the NES and SNES days which is why i didn't enjoy it as much.
so it kinda depends on what generation you're from, as i'm sure the majority of the younger generation (people in late teens to early twenties) may prefer 7 and 8 to 9
thoughs?
I'm 15 and I enjoy the "classic" "modern" and a mix of the two all equally. To me, it's the plot and gameplay that matter, setting has almost no influence on my enjoyment of the games. Gun to my head, I prefer the classic medieval games.
Yeah i didn't notice this got moved either...
Actually, Cloud is one of the most extreme cases of character development in the series, but it's very erratic and somewhat hard to spot. In the beginning, he's Zack. He acts like a douche, but he's not an emo whiny baby, nor is he COMPLETELY uncaring. Then, as Sephiroth steps back into his life and starts manipulating him, he becomes more insecure and tried blocking everyone out (which is UNDERSTANDABLE, people, I mean the guy's life is a series of train wrecks, with the only person's life I can even think of comparing it to is Big Boss from MGS) After Aeris/th dies, he becomes moody, begins to doubt himself and even begins to hate himself for failing to protect his friend. But then, as Tifa helps him sort out his life (with help from Aeris, according to Maiden) he begins to accept the past and moves on, forming his own personality, which is still somewhat similar to Zack's. So yeah, he goes through mega-development. And btw, I hated aeris too, but even moreso in KHII and CC (AH! THE SKY! AH! SOLDIER! AH! A BUG!! WAAAAAAAH!!!)Quote:
Originally Posted by _yeojina_
IX is great,
VIII is excellent (cept junctioning grrr)
and VII is in a completely different league
Hey, if you like the game, so be it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenbokoBasing a game only on who made it is ignorant and stupid considering it says nothing about the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion4444
I loved everything about Freya's character design, except how her face was the exact same color as her hankerchief thing. It made her face kinda confusing. Well, until after the Beatrix scene, then it became fairly obvious
All I said is that it wasn't a Kitase game.
Kind of pointless to bring this tread to General Final Fantasy since it's been in the FFIX Forums for ages.
Of course, it be obvious to point out most people would post more in the forum of their favorite game.
FFVII & FFVIII were better IMO.
who gives a freaking crap that it wasn't a kitase game? are you like romantically interested in kitase or what? you're always saying that junk. there were PLENTY of games in the series that kitase had nothing to do with, that were still good, some of the best. including IX. and how could you include XIII in your list? it's obviously not out yet and you know next to nothing about it. just because kitase's involved doesn't necessarily mean it'll be good, either. not that i'm knocking kitase. it's just annoying that you act like kitase is god, and that everything he touches is gold and everything he doesn't touch is crap. IX was a great game. VII and VIII were both really good too, but if i had to pick a favorite out of the ps1 era final fantasies, i'd pick IX. and tactics.
My two cents:
IX has the highest overall rating of all Final Fantasy games to date.
According to what? I love FFIX, but I hate skewed statistics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fate Fatale
seeing as how kuja is wearing a thong, and therefore cannot take him seriously, i wil agree that 7 and 8 were the best ones and i grew up with them.
BUT zidane has a tail, thus making it more fantasy like. i just think it was more like the earlier ones, and so 7 and 8 were out of place actually.
I wrote a paper on Final Fantasy games a few years back and found these statistics many places; with FFIX having a rating of 9.8 and VII and VIII with 9.5. However after looking it up to double check, it seems it isn't so anymore. Never mind that then, it's still an amazing game. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by GoldenbokoAccording to what? I love FFIX, but I hate skewed statistics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fate Fatale
Actually, FF is correct. Well, according to gamerankings and metacritic, FFIX is the highest reviewed FF. Only by like, one percent though. :p
Yay, statistics for the win!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
That means less then nothing. At least 5 thousand other sites (gamestop for example), will rate FFVII and VIII higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
Basically what I'm saying is, other peoples opinions don't prove anything when debating for a topic.
^Well those are those sites compare the proper critics reviews, which have more objectivity about them. (But still not enough).
I'd say the one percent is meaningless though, not the reviews in themselves. That was why I did a :p.
Final Fantasy IX (psx: 2000): Reviews
Final Fantasy IX Reviews
his point was that it was the aggregate.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenbokoThat means less then nothing. At least 5 thousand other sites (gamestop for example), will rate FFVII and VIII higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
Basically what I'm saying is, other peoples opinions don't prove anything when debating for a topic.
I really don't feel its plausible to rank a games value simply on reviews I'm afraid. If that was the case, VII would be the last good FF game in the series except for the few publications (including Famitsu) who feel XII is in fact the greatest FF game in the series. As we all know, fans are abit split on the idea of saying one or the other is "the best"
Though I agree that as of now I feel XII is the best in the series (despite not being my favorite) it only replaces what I felt was the best game in the franchise before which was IX (once again, not my top FF but a damn good game nonetheless). The point is, I never saw any value in using reviews as some form of hard evidence. Bad games still sell millions despite poor reviews and great games (with great reviews) bankrupt companies cause of low sales.
Thats not really true. Every FF after VII has received critical acclaim from 'official' reviewers such as IGN, Gamespot, Famitsu, 1UP etc. Thats why the aggregates are approximately as follows:Quote:
I really don't feel its plausible to rank a games value simply on reviews I'm afraid. If that was the case, VII would be the last good FF game in the series except for the few publications (including Famitsu) who feel XII is in fact the greatest FF game in the series.
FFVII: 92%
FFVIII: 88%
FFIX: 94%
FFX: 92%
FFXII: 92%
From what I can remember off the top of my head (I look at this kind of stuff - I'm that sad ;)).
Anyway, the reviews are probably high because Square bribed them. :p
I guess the problem is that you can never look at a game completely objectively. It is an artistic medium and so it lots of it is subjective. There are some parts of a game that can be objectively measured, such as controls, however. And 'official' reviewers are supposed to look at them and try and be as objective as possible. Of course, reviewers rarely are that good.Quote:
The point is, I never saw any value in using reviews as some form of hard evidence
Trying to work out how good a game is is very difficult. But by looking at basic stuff like the controls, gameplay systems etc you can come to a more objective decision. Still though, stuff like GTA rates extremely highly, yet I wouldnt call GTA IV the best game ever.
I agree that its truly difficult to review a game objectively since its also an artistic medium. Hell, GTA is a wonderful example as I have always felt that it was an overall mediocre series yet it gets 10 and five gold stars from everyone. :rolleyes2
Despite this, I recognize IX as a great game and I felt it was easily the strongest entry in the PS1 generation. I know it gets nailed for being a rehash of old ideas but I do feel it brought something much needed to the series: Balance.
In an entirely off what is being spoken of now topic, I did not care for the ability system in VIII or IX. VII definitely beat the later games out by far on that point. However, IX, in my opinion, far surpassed the other games in story depth, side-story depth, mini-game development, and nostalgia. There was so much to do in IX that I am always excited for my next replay after beating the game.
VII, VIII and IX were all good, but IX stayed closest to it's roots. VII and VIII were games on an expedition for new things and new fans. Was IX as good as VII and VIII? Well, I think so, but it really depends on which group of FF junkies you are talking to. I'm an FFIV, FFVI and FFXII junkie more than the rest. The original PSOne FFs were better than some, but they'd take my middle fav spot. I like the PS1 games all for different reasons, but I loathe certain things about each of them too.
Actually i am the opposite of your opinion. I hated 7 and 8 but i love 9 and think it is the best final fantasy.
so no, i think that final fantasy 9 was very fun and interesting, but i found 7 and 8 to be boring and dull.