Water fasting

I ahve decided to water fast for three days starting Saturday.

I heard it is not only good for weight loss, but also good to cleanse my body and remove excess bad stuff (<-- not the scientific term of course) If I can also work up the will power to do nothing but drink water for three days straight, it should also help with the rejecting of junk food. I also decided to look for a vegen cheese alternative because cheese is aweful for dieting and I just love it so much :( Why must you be fattening cheese wwwwwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

Anyways, has anyone here ever done a fast? I read I will apparently go through withdrawl like symptoms and be a crank for a while also.

Let me preface this by saying that I've never looked into any research or science behind fasting for relatively short periods at a time, so there may well be benefits I don't know about. That out of the way, I wouldn't recommend it just knowing what I do know about nutrition. For starters, you may lose some weight, but it would likely be muscle that you're losing instead of fat. The body can really only go for several hours without protein before it starts looking to the muscle tissue for the protein it isn't getting from food. It's why a good breakfast should include eggs or meat to get the protein that you haven't had in several hours of being asleep.

I'm also going to call bulltrout on the idea of not eating or anything else clearing out toxins or whatever else people think you need to clear out of your body when they go on a diet. You want to get rid of the bad stuff you've eaten in the past? Stop eating it and it will pass eventually. I like to call it poop. Just eat the right kind of foods and you'll be fine. That means eating plenty of protein in the form of meat, eggs, etc. (more than the US government says you should have), and cutting back on grains or cutting them out entirely. Don't worry about fat content of the foods your eating. If you're buying lean meats and eggs you would actually need to eat more fat than what you get from servings of those, which is where things like avacado's, nuts, seeds, olive oil, or even some salad dressing now and then come in.

Too many carbs are what make people fat (and sick for that matter), not eating too much fat.

I'm not a fan of fasting or detoxes. I did a fruit detox once. You could only drink water, eat fresh fruits and raw nuts, and drink fresh squeezed juice. It was a tough week. I was hungry all the time, cranky, and I don't think I was any "healthier" or "cleaner" because of it.

What will end up happening is that you will lose weight, but it's because you're starving your body of nutrients and calories that you need to survive. Your body will go into starvation mode and conserve as many calories as it can to keep you alive, and your metabolism will slow down. By the time you start eating again, your body's gonna store MORE calories because you've tricked it into thinking you were starving. Any weight that you lost will be gained back and THEN SOME. As for the "detox" aspect...your body is capable of expelling toxins by itself.

If you really want to be healthier and lose weight, then I think a lifestyle change would be a better route to go. Eat smaller meals more often instead of 3 big ones to keep your metabolism going. America has a problem with too-large portions so just eat less calories at each meal. Lean proteins, good fats, whole grains, fresh fruit, veggies...eat more of those and less processed foods. Get more exercise, even if it's just taking a nice walk. I love cheese too, and I eat it on a daily basis. The whole trick is portion control. It's okay to treat yourself, but don't over-indulge.

Please take a look at these two pages before you decide either way:
The Dangers Of Fasting
Fasting: Harmful Or Helpful? - CBS News

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Fasting: Harmful Or Helpful?
By Marianne Goldstein

(CBS) Dieters looking for a quick fix that will enable them to clean out their systems and lose weight have long turned to lengthy juice or water fasts to do the trick. But Health magazine reports that long-term fasting can actually cause more harm than good.

For the May issue of Health, Samantha Heller, a registered dietician and contributor, researched the various kinds of fasts and diets that promise to remove toxins and claim they can leave dieters looking and feeling better. However, she was unimpressed with the science behind the fasts and the results they offered.

Detoxification, she pointed out in the magazine, is something that our bodies do naturally every day — regardless of whether we are eating normally or restricting ourselves to liquids.

According to Heller, there are a few advantages to going on a very short-term juice or water fast — dieters can break a cycle of binging; it can make a dieter more aware of what he or she is eating every day; and it may even encourage dieters to add more fruits and vegetables to their meals.

However, when done over several days, a fast can also be harmful. Heller outlines some reasons:

• An extreme cutback in calories for more than a day or two scares the body and sends it into survival mode. The body will work to conserve energy and slow down metabolism.
• In most cases, the lost weight is just water weight that will be regained after the detox program has ended.
• Some detox diets include herbal supplements that could contain laxatives. Dieters may feel lighter but they haven't lost fat. Overuse of laxatives can lead to dehydration and other medical problems.
• While some fasters claim to experience a feeling of euphoria, the feeling may be due to the fact that they've stopped eating a lot of unhealthy food or feel good that they have lost some weight and gotten control of their eating. They could even be experiencing the light-headedness associated with low blood sugar.
• Fasting while taking certain medications can be dangerous, and it's certainly not advisable to go off prescribed medications without first talking to your physician.

Heller had some helpful tips for anyone who is considering doing some extreme bodily spring cleaning:

• Dump junk food and fast food.
• Eat vegetables (any kind) at least two times a day.
• Have one or two fresh whole fruits every day.
• Choose only lean and low fat sources of protein, such as fish and chicken. Go organic if you can find it and can afford it.
• Try to buy organic produce from local farmers, if available.
• Drink plenty of fluids, including water, teas and seltzers.
• Include unsalted nuts several times a week.
• Add more fiber to your diet by adding beans (kidney, chick pea, white beans, split peas etc.) to salads, soups and pasta dishes.
• Choose whole wheat, oats and whole grains nine times out of 10. Examples: whole wheat bread, whole grain pasta, oatmeal and multigrain cereals.
• Add walnuts, avocado, tofu, edamame (green soybeans) and canola oil to your meals several times a week.
• Limit alcohol intake.

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Congratulations on being really, spectacularly stupid.

There is no quick fix to getting healthy. Stop being a lazy moron and stop looking for shortcuts. If you want to get healthy, it takes hard work: simple as. The willpower of drinking only water is nothing compared to the willpower required to stay on a healthy diet permanently. Stop being a ponce and do some work.

Eat 3 - 5 healthy meals a day. This will quickly speed up your metabolism. Cut down on carbs. You should be limiting yourself to about two slices of bread's worth of carbs per day. Carry on eating eggs, meat, vegetables, fruit, nuts, etc. Cut the cheese (hehe). Also, do exercise. Running is cheap and good for you; run on grass to limit future damage to your knees. If you can't find grass, have a longer break in between runs. Run one day, rest the next day, then run, rest, run, rest and so on. You don't need to run a marathon; just a quick 10 - 20 minutes will do wonders.

Furthermore, as has been mentioned, your body does not burn fat or bad stuff first. When you starve, it processes protein. When it runs out of food protein, it eats muscle. Only when the muscle becomes useless does it eat fat. If you fast, you will be weak and tired the whole time, you will lose an insignificant amount of weight which you shouldn't be losing because it's the good stuff, and you'll come out worse than you went in. Just actually smurfing research nutrition if you wanna get healthy, instead of reading bulltit mags.

Breakfast: Early - 8/9AM. Eggs and bacon (remove the rinds). Slice of bread. Orange juice. Water. Make bacon scrambled egg on toast or something.
Lunch: Lunchtime. 12-1PM. Protein salad. Chicken/turkey is good. No bread or croutons. Water.
Afternoon meal: 2-3PM. Soup is fine. Slice of bread. Juice. Water. If you have potatoes in the soup/stew, don't have bread.
Dinner: 5-7PM. Salad is good again. Mix it up. Have a nutty salad at lunchtime, have a leafy salad at dinnertime. Water. No bread.
Supper: 9-10PM. Something light. No carbs. Finish off any remaining salad/have a fruit cocktail with yoghurt etc. Juice. Water. Sleep.

That'll do you fine. No fasting needed. Lose more weight, gain more strength, feel more energised for longer. I'm no diet specialist, but I understood food and human biology well enough to ensure I remain healthy whilst still getting tasty food. You can buy allsorts of things if you know where to look: I get some tasty no carb/ no fat sausages from my local. Allows me to keep my diet fresh and different. You should also be drinking water throughout the day, outside of these meals. Drink before you're thirsty. A few mouthfuls every 20 minutes, that sort of thing. Takes a while to get in the habit.

The "withdrawal" symptoms are more commonly known (though only to intelligent people) as being dangerously unhealthy. When you are lacking something, your brain tells you what it is and what you should eat to get that something. This is why unusual things become delicious when you are actually starving rather than just being a giant moron.

A big, important tip here: drink regularly. Water weight occurs because your body starts storing it, not knowing when the next dose is. Every time you drink, it stores. The way to get rid of this is to drink more often. This will set the body into efficient safe mode and will allow the water to just pass through normally, taking all that bad tit with it. Also, drink fruit juice. Try to get actual fruit juice rather than from concentrate. smurf it, just buy a tonne of oranges from Costco. Job done. When you have a 250ml glass of orange juice, also drink a 250ml glass of water. Most vitamins are water soluble, so diluting them once they're inside is a good way to efficiently distribute them. Drink water with every meal you eat. Don't snack.

Bear in mind that eating unhealthy is fine. Grab a donut once a weak. Have some ice cream. Get some cheese in you. Just keep that treat to a treat, instead of making it your diet. You should set aside some time in your week to enjoy those treats: Cheese Hour. This will make everything else feel so much sweeter too.

Another way to lose weight is to just lop off your head, since you're obviously not using what's inside.

EDIT: Final note: Make a fist with both hands. Join your fists at the thumb. That is the size that every one of your five meals should be. Any snack you have in between meals should be kept to one or two pieces of fruit or protein, depending on how much energy your day is taking. Apples and bananas are the best fruit for waking up: apple short term, banana long term. A yoghurt is good too. But don't have more than that. Bear in mind that when you start out on a healthy lifestyle, it's harder work than sticking to it. It's like accelerating in a car onto the motorway: hard work at first, but then you go into cruise mode. Also, for the start you'll need to be strict and take baby steps, since you obviously know nothing about the human body. One you've learned, you can be more liberal with the whole thing.

God. This reminds me of when I was anorexic, which for obvious reasons did NOT turn out well, as I lost 20 pounds and my blood pressure was something like 50/30...
In any case, eating healthy and exercising is the proper way to lost weight and detox your body. Not by starving it of the nutrients it needs to keep on running. Because like others before me have said, your body will start consuming its own tissue and muscles to give it energy. Not good at all. Been there, done that, and it's one of the worst things you can do to your body.

I agree with pretty much everything that AngelWings and Quin have said with the exception of whole grains. You don't need to eat whole grains, and if you have trouble losing body fat, I'd recommend trying not to eat them along with any other grains for a while. Insulin is the major hormone which drives fat storage. When your blood sugar increases, the body releases insulin which basically signals to store some of that as fat. The more insulin your body releases in response to higher blood sugar, the more fat it's going to store. You'll also probably find you start to run low on energy when your blood sugar inevitably crashes.

Now the problem with even whole grains is that they can make your blood sugar and insulin levels spike to amounts almost, or as high as what you'd get after drinking a can of Pepsi or similar pop. Now eating some may not stop your weight loss so long as your minimizing the amount of grains you eat each day, but if you can get by not eating them at all, with the exception of when it can't be avoided or during whatever cheat meals and snacks you plan for I'd rather see that. For me it's pretty easy to get rid of grains since I don't really like them that much. They were just something that was always pretty quick and easy, but I much prefer eating a lot of meat with some vegetables here and there. And nothing is faster or more satisfying than re-heating some lean ground beef and having some almonds if I want a bit of a snack.

Also, I find it a bit strange in your post Quin, that you state she should limit yourself to two slices of bread worth of carbs a day (which isn't bad if you're getting it from something other than two slices of bread), then give a sample meal plan which includes two slices of bread in addition to salads and juices. Maybe I'm simply misunderstanding you, but that would obviously be more than two slices worth of carbs.

And finally, I just want to say that calling Shion stupid isn't helping anything Quin. She's talked openly about her struggles to eat right and lose weight, and her problem with how she looks and while she may not have all the right information, she's still trying. And I can't really blame anyone for being unsure of how to lose weight and what's good for them when there is an apparently never ending stream of gimmicks and bulltrout out there around nutritional information and losing weight. Hell, you can even take a look at the USDA website if you want to see one of the bigger sources of bad information. But they're the government. They couldn't possibly be wrong right?

It's no small task to start to see through the crap out there and find what works, whether intentionally, out of desperation, or by accident. And anyone who is at least trying to get out there and educate themselves or experiment with new ideas may be misinformed, but I wouldn't necessarily call them stupid.

I rage at ignorance. It's a reflex. And hey, the insults were of lesser quantity than the aid, so I'm getting better. Normally I'd have just stopped at insults.

I agree about the bread bit, my bad. But it's so delicious, it would feel wrong to utterly deprive a person of it.

The only reliable way to keep healthy and fit, is to change your habits completely. There are no healthy short-term solutions, and even if you manage to lose a great amount of weight, you are likely to put on twice the amount if you crash-diet. It's a change you have to be willing to commit to one hundred percent.

I managed to throw off 20 kg a couple of years ago, and I went from 79 kg to 59 kg, which is my current weight. I started to work out and now I work out for 45 minutes every single day. I haven't missed one single day in three years. I cut out sugar completely, and stayed clear of carbohydrates.

It really is a matter of changing your way of life completely. It should never feel like a chore, but something that is a natural part of your every day life.

I personally don't like to eat bread or rice that much...but I love noodles and pasta :-D The reason I suggested whole grains is so that it could act as a replacement for refined grains. While grains may not be good for "losing weight", I believe that having a balanced diet with a focus on getting a wide variety of nutrients and fiber you need would be more helpful in the long run. I also think that people who deprive themselves of a certain food group find it harder to stick to a diet than when they don't cut out certain food groups and just eat them in moderation.

Whole grains are a good source of fiber as well as reduce risks of heart disease, cancer, and diabetes. But also keep in mind that just because something is "brown", doesn't make it "whole grain". Gotta look at ingredient labels! And again, it's all about portion control...you can't just go eating a whole loaf of whole grain bread and expect to have great results.

Run, lift weights, eat healthy, that's how you lose weight. When it comes down to it, you should really only worry about calories in vs. calories out. Until you've been dieting and exercising well for a several months to a year, you should just stick to that.

A water fast sounds horrible. When my belly is empty, water just makes me hungrier. My belly does not like to feel that clean.

If I'm going to do a strict diet, I like the cabbage soup diet. It's always worked for me, lets me have an amount of food I can enjoy, and makes my butt feel clean. I will usually lose 10-15 pounds, and then gain five back afterwards (because I am careful with what I eat after--don't go back to stuffing your face), and I think that's reasonable.

Extremely bad idea.

But Vivi22 covered all my points eloquently already. >:(

Putting your body into starvation mode for a few days MIGHT cause you to lose weight, but it will be the wrong kind. You won't lose fat. You'll lose muscle tissue. And then when you start eating again your body will hoard those new calories and make you fatter in the long run.

I would first and foremost like to thank people for insulting my intelligence and calling me "lazy" and "stupid".
You can bet this will be the last post I ever make here. I hope you all have spectacular lives


Fasting is an exceptionally ancient, and powerful, approach to healing many common disease conditions. It allows the body to rest, detoxify, and to heal. During fasting the body moves into the same kind of detoxification cycle that it normally enters during sleep. It uses its energy during a fast, not for digesting food, but for cleansing the body of accumulated toxins and healing any parts of it that are ill. As a fast progresses the body consumes everything that it can that is not essential to bodily functioning. This includes bacteria, viruses, fibroid tumors, waste products in the blood, any build up around the joints, and stored fat. The historical record indicates that human beings are evolutionarily designed to fast. It is an incredibly safe approach to healing and the body knows how to do it very well.
The Health Benefits of Water Fasting by Stephen Harrod Buhner

Historical records tell us that fasting has been used for health recovery for thousands of years. Hippocrates, Socrates, and Plato all recommended fasting for health recovery. The Bible tells us that Moses and Jesus fasted for 40 days for spiritual renewal. Mahatma Gandhi fasted for 21 days to promote respect and compassion between people with different religions.
For much of human history, fasting has been guided by intuition and spiritual purpose. Today, our understanding of human physiology confirms the powerful healing effects of fasting.
Fasting is a powerful therapeutic process that can help people recover from mild to severe health conditions. Some of the most common ones are high blood pressure, asthma, allergies, chronic headaches, inflammatory bowel disease (ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s disease), irritable bowel syndrome, adult onset diabetes, heart disease, degenerative arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, eczema, acne, uterine fibroids, benign tumours, and systemic lupus erythematosus.
Fasting provides a period of concentrated physiological rest during which time the body can devote its self-healing mechanisms to repairing and strengthening damaged organs. The process of fasting also allows the body to cleanse cells of accumulated toxins and waste products.
Fasting gives the digestive tract time to completely rest and strengthen its mucosal lining. A healthy intestinal mucosal lining is necessary for preventing the leakage of incompletely digested proteins into the bloodstream, thereby offering protection against autoimmune conditions. A healthy digestive tract also helps to protect the blood and inner organs against a variety of environmental and metabolic toxins.
Fasting - Water Fasting - Fasting for Health

The Health Benefits of Fasting | Serendip's Exchange
Water Fasting Tips for Body Detox and Improved Health.
The Health Benefits of Water Fasting | My Strange Mind
Benefits Of Water Fasting - ModernGhana.com

I don't think anyone had insulted your intelligence, besides Quin, er... Sir Topham Hatt, so there's no need to leave EoFF because of him. Everybody else were advising you against fasting. However it is your decision and if you want to go ahead and fast, good luck to you.

As far as I can see, everyone respectfully disagreed with you except for Quin. One person was rude so now you want to flounce? I think you should re-read the thread, because it sounds like you somehow got it in your head that everyone's yelling at you, when most of us simply don't agree that water fasting is a good thing. In fact, calling people lazy morons is against the rules, so, instead of getting mad, you may want to try reporting the post so Quin can just get a warning. I mean, I didn't read his post 'cause it was totally tl;dr, but if I had I would've warned him for being inflammatory in his wording.

Then again, the kind of people that flounce so easily aren't fun to have around anyway, so do as you will.

tl;dr: chillax

ETA: Oh yeah, Quin, don't call sensitive people lazy morons. You are a warned.

Just because something is "ancient" or has been used "historically" doesn't necessarily make it a good thing nor does it make it scientifically sound. Most of these sites seem to be personal sites, religious sites, or blogs. None seem to have scientific research and hard evidence; just a bunch of blanket statements. I do not see any articles on MayoClinic.com that support fasting. There may be signs that there is a connection between calorie restriction and longevity, but keep in mind that there is a difference between calorie restriction and fasting. Your Serendip link is apparently a student paper? He used WebMD as a reference, and here's an article that they posted about fasting (Fasting) that clearly states:

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Some fasting diets claim that they can cleanse the body of impurities. However, there is no evidence that fasting detoxifies your body, or that your body even needs to be detoxified. It is naturally designed to remove toxins through the skin (by sweating), liver, colon, and kidneys.

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And all the sites tell you to consult your doctor before fasting. Have you done so? Whatever you decide is up to you, but I do think you should talk to your doctor before you jump into something like this.

What is this I don't even.mp3

Foods you don't get to eat when losing weight:

- processed
- highly fatty
- highly sugary
- white grain


That's it. Now eat 50% protein and make sure it's not protein shakes. The dietary fat is enough for your diet. figure out the balance for your TDEE and eat that in carbs (that I've allowed you to eat; mostly fruits/veggies/whole grains, thank you very much pg you nazi)

That said a small fast does not hurt. I only get to eat for about 7-8 hours a day and I eat 3 times - 25% the first time, 25% the second, and post workout I eat 50% of my food allowance. I eat a stupid amount of protein and I exercise moderately - 50-90 reps max. I don't bother with cardio - it's good for your heart and I don't care; if I did cardio I would probably just eat more food to compensate.

During weekends my caloric intake drops significantly. I probably eat for only 4-6 hours and only once or twice, and I eat poorly. That's what I mean by periodic fasting.

Yeah, just ignore Quin who has a awful new screen name.

As someone who has fasted before let me say this, it is NOT a solution for weight loss. It's just not.

I will say that I felt remarkably good while fasting. I have trouble with insomnia and the whole time I was on the fast, I slept like a baby and had a lot of energy throughout the day. Bizarre, but I felt really good. I also loved the test of willpower. And it really wasn't even that hard for me, and I'm someone who adores food. I was able to be around people eating without being all that tempted, and I also cooked for other people while fasting. It was an interesting thing to try. My Dad has been sporadically fasting for as long as I can remember, but purely for religious reasons.

But any weight you lose while fasting is going to be water weight, or muscle weight. You will NOT lose fat. And anything you lose, you will gain back. It's not a long term solution and it isn't even a short term one. Once you start eating again, you will gain back the weight IMMEDIATELY.

I cannot repeat this often enough. It is NOT a weight loss solution. It's not, it's not, it's not. But psychologically, it might be a kick in the butt for you. You will either realize how much unnecessary food you put into your body, or (and this is really common) you will eat even more after fasting. I know that there's a lot of people who fast, and then follow up the fast by eating all the favorite foods they missed while fasting. There is a good chance you will end up gaining weight.

I would really encourage you to just learn more about health and nutrition. Because that is the ONLY long term solution, and the only thing that really works.

I think the problem here is that you keep looking at everything from the surface level. Quick fixes and tips and tricks. It's not enough for you to know whether or not you should eat peanut butter. You need to understand food, calories, protein, etc on a more basic and broad level. So really, educate yourself on nutrition. How your body metabolizes food, what food is good/bad for you and why.

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Originally Posted by AngelWings8

Just because something is "ancient" or has been used "historically" doesn't necessarily make it a good thing nor does it make it scientifically sound.

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This. I mean, ancient Egyptians used to stuff their vaginas with crocodile crap as birth control, but I doubt you're going to be trying that next.

But, like Miriel said, fasting can feel good and can be a nice kick in the butt. It's not good for weight loss in and of itself, but the kick in the butt can be nice. I would find a water-only fast torture though.

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Originally Posted by Sir Topham Hatt

I agree about the bread bit, my bad. But it's so delicious, it would feel wrong to utterly deprive a person of it.

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I can understand that. I happen to like pizza quite a bit actually so saying no to grains forever is pretty much impossible for me. I usually feel like trout if I eat much in the way of grains though. I have less energy, get hungry sooner, and especially when I work out I feel slower and weaker than when I don't eat them so I try to avoid them as much as possible. I realize many people like their breads and pastas more than I really need them so I try not to say never eat them. But when you can keep it to a few times a week you'll be better off for it.

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Originally Posted by AngelWings8

Whole grains are a good source of fiber as well as reduce risks of heart disease, cancer, and diabetes.

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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but everything I've read in the last few years is pointing towards high-carb diets (the sort only possible when we eat grains, including whole grains) as being the cause of heart disease, diabetes, and likely contributing to some forms of cancer, though I'm having trouble remembering which ones at the moment. It tends to be the first two which are talked about more anyway. Cutting carbs while eating more protein and fat actually reduces the risk of heart disease, and I'd be pretty damn shocked if anyone developed type 2 diabetes while keeping their carbs around or below 100 a day and cutting out grains. Grains, including whole grains cause such huge spikes in blood sugar that it really stresses the pancreas to create insulin. The longer this goes on, the more insulin resistant a person becomes, so the more insulin needs to be made to control blood sugar, and eventually the Pancreas just can't handle it anymore. That's usually about the time people find out they'll need to monitor their blood sugar and take insulin when needed.

And I disagree with the idea that grains are needed in the diet at all, especially in modern first world countries. There's no shortage of more nutritious vegetables and fruit, or good sources of protein and fat. Sure grains may have been important for thousands of years since they grow quite readily and store easily so there were times, I'm sure, across many civilizations where it was either eat grains or starve, but we don't really need them. There's not a lot of nutritional value in them compared to fruit and vegetables and the number they do on blood sugar isn't worth it if you ask me.

Dr. Robert Eckel of the American Heart Association says that high-protein, low-carbohydrate diets put people at risk of heart disease... I think I've seen research supporting both sides in this "whole grain" issue, but personally, I think a lot of the "carbs are bad for you" craze happened because of everyone jumping on the Atkins bandwagon.

I also want to be clear that I'm not talking about the products you buy at the store that has 1% whole grain...and mostly a whole bunch of sugar, high fructose corn syrup, processed *insert grain here*, and a whole bunch of additives and preservatives. And I'm also not supporting a high-carb diet. I believe in everything in moderation...that's why high-carb/no-carb whatever diets aren't good for you. I typically believe that eating carbs low in the glycemic index are good for you since they don't cause that huge sugar spike you mentioned.

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

Run, lift weights, eat healthy, that's how you lose weight. When it comes down to it, you should really only worry about calories in vs. calories out. Until you've been dieting and exercising well for a several months to a year, you should just stick to that.

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Actually run, lift weights, and eat next to nothing, just enough to keep you going.

That's how I lost weight, at least.

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Originally Posted by Peegee

I don't bother with cardio - it's good for your heart and I don't care; if I did cardio I would probably just eat more food to compensate.

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What is this I don't even

The two main reasons I run: so I can eat a little more and so I get some cardio in to get my blood pumping more efficiently. Your muscles would probably benefit from some added blood flow, PG. :colbert:

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Originally Posted by DMKA

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

Run, lift weights, eat healthy, that's how you lose weight. When it comes down to it, you should really only worry about calories in vs. calories out. Until you've been dieting and exercising well for a several months to a year, you should just stick to that.

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Actually run, lift weights, and eat next to nothing, just enough to keep you going.

That's how I lost weight, at least.

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That's not necessarily a good way to lose weight; you'll need to keep up your protein intake while cutting a small amount of calories from your diet so that your body doesn't waste away.

benefits from cardio

- stronger heart
- caloric deficit
- increased bloodflow
- accelerates recovery
- pokemon master
- a lot more reasons

I don't do cardio. u made? come at me bro

About eating bread - just switch to 12 grain bread like I do. The stuff is delicious. I am adamant though that you do / should not take any dairy products so-as-long as you are trying to be healthy.

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Originally Posted by ShlupQuack

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Originally Posted by AngelWings8

Just because something is "ancient" or has been used "historically" doesn't necessarily make it a good thing nor does it make it scientifically sound.

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This. I mean, ancient Egyptians used to stuff their vaginas with crocodile crap as birth control, but I doubt you're going to be trying that next.

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This, and this.

There are plenty of things that were terrible ideas that were done in pre-modern times for "heath" that were counterproductive and harmful.

We know now that fasting does much more harm to a person's well being than good. Please don't do it. Research some medical sites first, not sites biased towards fasting. Better yet, talk to a doctor.

You WILL gain any weight you lose from the fast back eventually because it's not a medially sound way to lose fat. You will lose water weight and muscle tisssue.

Always too late to the party - all these people are giving you advice to save you pain, discomfort, and a weekend of fasting which will end in you gaining more weight in the following week.

Seeya, hope you enjoyed your time with us.

Wait, would this mean that water fasting is an effective method of GAINING weight? :D

the body will likely go into fat storing mode shortly after, so yes more fat weight!

*Kentarou water fasts*

I have never seen a fat Wizzrobe. And I doubt I ever will. :(

Asking for medical/diet advice on a Final Fantasy message board = no bueno

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Originally Posted by Peegee

benefits from cardio

- stronger heart
- caloric deficit
- increased bloodflow
- accelerates recovery
- pokemon master
- a lot more reasons

I don't do cardio. u made? come at me bro

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http://themetapicture.com/media/funn...at-you-bro.jpg

I learned PG doesn't actually want to be a Pokemon master.

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Originally Posted by Flying Mullet

Asking for medical/diet advice on a Final Fantasy message board = no bueno

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lulz

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Originally Posted by AngelWings8

Dr. Robert Eckel of the American Heart Association says that high-protein, low-carbohydrate diets put people at risk of heart disease...

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And he'd be wrong not to put too fine a point on it. No causal link has ever been proven between diets high in fat and protein and low in carbs and a higher incidence of heart disease. Normally I wouldn't link to a Men's Health article as my first piece of evidence, but this is one of the few articles I've seen them do that was not only well researched, but seemed to critically look at the data available: Saturated Fat | Men's Health

I also happen to be at my parents and only have a bit of time to track down some of the evidence that's out there without access to my usually bookmarked sources. Perhaps one of the more telling facts is that Ancel Keys, essentially the person who started to raise the alarm regarding high fat diets fudged his data to get there. Most observational studies since haven't done much better.

Another more recent article that is none the less quite interesting is here: Super-sticky 'ultra-bad' cholesterol revealed in people at high risk of heart disease

You can also find an interesting breakdown of what the implications of these findings are here: Fat Head » ‘Super-Sticky’ Cholesterol and Diabetics

Essentially it discusses a fairly recently discovered type of cholesterol which is essentially extra sticky, causing it to more readily stick to the walls of arteries. This type of cholesterol is created through a process called glycation where sugar groups are added to normal LDL. This process happens within the body, and happens more readily with fructose and galactase than glucose. The important take away though is that this stuff isn't something you ingest when you eat meat. It's something created in the body from sugar in the blood.

And intuitively, the idea that animal fat is going to make you die of heart disease doesn't make much sense on a number of levels. There's the evolutionary argument for starters. For the better part of 2 million years worth of human evolution our diets consisted largely of meat and animal fat. We may have eaten some plants that we could scavenge here and there, but until the advent of farming, we didn't have access to large quantities of fruit, vegetables, or grains, and for the most part, there aren't a lot of plants we can eat. We certainly can't eat the sorts of grasses that are plentiful in many parts of the world, particularly Africa, but we can certainly eat lot's of things that can digest that stuff. There's also the fact that fat, saturated and otherwise, are essential for proper brain development.
And heart disease hasn't shown to be a major problem among those who lived long enough to develop it in cultures which still, or until recently, lived on diets high in meat and fat. It often doesn't start to become an issue until they're introduced to more modern foods and farming techniques.

Until the advent of agriculture and ways to process wheat and other grains into a form we could actually ingest somewhat safely, we didn't eat grains at all. And we've only been eating them for about the last 10,000 years or so. So for well over 1 million years we were adapting to eat a diet that consisted largely of meat, not carbs. Then we started eating foods so high in carbs compared to anything we were used to foraging for that the only way our bodies can deal with such a large spike in blood glucose (because we don't burn that much very quickly) was to release more insulin and store it. Which might not seem so bad if you're not used to even knowing when or where you'll find your next meal, but in the long run is pretty bad for your health because there was no precedent for eating diets that high in carbs consistently before. It never happened. No wonder people started getting fat and sick.

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I think I've seen research supporting both sides in this "whole grain" issue, but personally, I think a lot of the "carbs are bad for you" craze happened because of everyone jumping on the Atkins bandwagon.

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There's a reason people became interested in Atkins and low carb diets. It's because they actually work and lead to people losing weight and feeling healthier. I mean, we've been hearing the virtues of low fat, high carb diets for more than 50 years at this point. But not only have the benefits of said diets never been proven, heart disease, obesity and diabetes are problems which are still growing. If simply cutting back on fat worked, even given the number of people who apparently don't give a crap about how they eat and are liable to end up on biggest loser, shouldn't there have been some reduction? Because people have been hearing about this stuff long enough that I think most people at least try to cut back on fat.

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I also want to be clear that I'm not talking about the products you buy at the store that has 1% whole grain...and mostly a whole bunch of sugar, high fructose corn syrup, processed *insert grain here*, and a whole bunch of additives and preservatives. And I'm also not supporting a high-carb diet. I believe in everything in moderation...that's why high-carb/no-carb whatever diets aren't good for you. I typically believe that eating carbs low in the glycemic index are good for you since they don't cause that huge sugar spike you mentioned.

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I agree that people should have carbs in moderation, and should be focused largely on vegetables and some fruit. The thing is, even legitimate whole grains from what I've seen still have a rather high GI and spike blood sugar to a level that is far too high. Most people just don't react to them well. Some of the most interesting benefits I've heard about from cutting out grains is actually with diabetics. I've seen quite a few talk online about how they're better able to manage their diabetes, and in some cases even get off of medications completely by cutting out grains and eating high protein, high fat diets.

I'm going to take some time to read the links you posted, but in the meantime, isn't it odd that Dr. Atkins himself (who followed his own diet) had a history of heart attack, congestive heart failure, hypertension and weighed 258 pounds at death? I believe his BMI would be qualified as obese. And while there are doctors that support the Atkins diet, there's a reason there are so many doctors against it as well. Many diet plans out there are just all marketing and people trying to make a quick buck. Just What Killed the Diet Doctor, And What Keeps the Issue Alive? - NYTimes.com

And again, I don't think a HIGH carb diet is good for you, and I think that's what your emphasizing. But I don't think a NO carb diet is good for you either. I think if you're going to eat carbs, you should focus more on complex carbs and cut out simple carbs. I also think people need to be eating more good fats. I use olive oil in everything, eat tons of fish, and I'll admit I love whole milk, steak, eggs, salami, prosciutto, bacon...all that fatty goodness. My diet typically consists of more protein and good fats, veggies (and I'm trying to eat more fruit), and a SMALL portion whole grains.

And you mentioned that it isn't until recently that we've had these problems because of our modern farming methods. What about the introduction of processed foods into our modern diet? Packaged, processed, and refined foods are what I've attributed to this country's obesity problem. Overeating as well as high-fat, high-calorie, high-sodium and high-sugar fast food and soda meals seem more likely to be the problem than a few slices of whole grain bread.

EDIT: So I skimmed through your articles (we have friends coming over to play board games so I'll try to read through them thoroughly later), and I want to emphasize that I don't think people need to cut down on fats. I completely agree that most people need more fats in their diet.

I also think it's important to distinguish between simple and complex carbs. For a typical person who doesn't have diabetes, I think they could very well stop consuming simple carbs for the better, but continue eating complex carbs like legumes, starchy vegetables like potatoes and corn, rice and grain products. You need to get your fiber somehow! Simple carbs are those that require little digestion and are a quick energy source. Candy, table sugar, sweetened soft drinks, etc. are examples of these simple sugar sources that provide calories but no nutrients. These are the carbs that I feel have no place in a well balanced diet.

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Complex carbs are more nutritious than refined grains, since they retain the bran and the germ, which are rich in vitamins, minerals, fiber, and beneficial phytochemicals. Whole grains are digested more slowly, and thus have a more modest effect on blood sugar than refined carbs or sugars.

The glycemic index has little practical use, however. You shouldn't try to build your diet around it, as some well-known diet doctors (including Dr. Atkins) advise. The main problem: it deals with single foods eaten by themselves. Potatoes may be high on the index, but when eaten as part of a meal, they have much less of an effect on blood sugar. There is no reason to avoid foods high on the glycemic index—many are very nutritious. Even people predisposed to diabetes, or with the disease, can eat these foods in moderation.

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http://www.wellnessletter.com/html/fw/fwNut03Carbs.html

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Originally Posted by shion

I would first and foremost like to thank people for insulting my intelligence and calling me "lazy" and "stupid".
You can bet this will be the last post I ever make here. I hope you all have spectacular lives


(SPOILER)Fasting is an exceptionally ancient, and powerful, approach to healing many common disease conditions. It allows the body to rest, detoxify, and to heal. During fasting the body moves into the same kind of detoxification cycle that it normally enters during sleep. It uses its energy during a fast, not for digesting food, but for cleansing the body of accumulated toxins and healing any parts of it that are ill. As a fast progresses the body consumes everything that it can that is not essential to bodily functioning. This includes bacteria, viruses, fibroid tumors, waste products in the blood, any build up around the joints, and stored fat. The historical record indicates that human beings are evolutionarily designed to fast. It is an incredibly safe approach to healing and the body knows how to do it very well.
The Health Benefits of Water Fasting by Stephen Harrod Buhner

Historical records tell us that fasting has been used for health recovery for thousands of years. Hippocrates, Socrates, and Plato all recommended fasting for health recovery. The Bible tells us that Moses and Jesus fasted for 40 days for spiritual renewal. Mahatma Gandhi fasted for 21 days to promote respect and compassion between people with different religions.
For much of human history, fasting has been guided by intuition and spiritual purpose. Today, our understanding of human physiology confirms the powerful healing effects of fasting.
Fasting is a powerful therapeutic process that can help people recover from mild to severe health conditions. Some of the most common ones are high blood pressure, asthma, allergies, chronic headaches, inflammatory bowel disease (ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s disease), irritable bowel syndrome, adult onset diabetes, heart disease, degenerative arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, eczema, acne, uterine fibroids, benign tumours, and systemic lupus erythematosus.
Fasting provides a period of concentrated physiological rest during which time the body can devote its self-healing mechanisms to repairing and strengthening damaged organs. The process of fasting also allows the body to cleanse cells of accumulated toxins and waste products.
Fasting gives the digestive tract time to completely rest and strengthen its mucosal lining. A healthy intestinal mucosal lining is necessary for preventing the leakage of incompletely digested proteins into the bloodstream, thereby offering protection against autoimmune conditions. A healthy digestive tract also helps to protect the blood and inner organs against a variety of environmental and metabolic toxins.
Fasting - Water Fasting - Fasting for Health

The Health Benefits of Fasting | Serendip's Exchange
Water Fasting Tips for Body Detox and Improved Health.
The Health Benefits of Water Fasting | My Strange Mind
Benefits Of Water Fasting - ModernGhana.com

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Fasting will only benefit in making you feel worse in the long run as previously mentioned. Try re-reading the post of the man who insulted you, it has basically all the information you would need ironically. If you want to leave because of such a stupid reason then by all means do what you want but at least think about the action and don't do it on pure impulse. You may regret the consequences.

We get a newbie who actually likes me and you run her out. Damn you. :pissed:

I like you :kaohappy2 Well...except for the fact that you killed me in Dwarf Fortress. It's gonna take me some time to forgive you for that :kaoangry:

Based on how easy it was to critically butthurt her, I think Quin did you a favor.

I'm fasting right now! But I think I shall break my fast as soon as I can be arsed to get out of bed.

I just broke my fast with a burrito. :monster:

I dunno. I ate mcdonald's yesterday before partying on a boat (I'M ON A BOAT) and today I had about 1500 calories in one sitting because it was a birthday dinner - most of it was meat though. I expect to maintain the same weight and post something in facebook about how it's so impossible to gain weight waaaaah

but then I actually exercise, so that might have something to do with things.

Ew, who merged EoEO with General Chat? Go away you tl;dr calorie counters.

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Originally Posted by Happy Noodle Boy

Ew, who merged EoEO with General Chat? Go away you tl;dr calorie counters.

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Go away, fatty.

Weird, I said the exact same thing to your mother after I was done with her last night.

All this healthy living stuff got me doing some exercise. I just came back from a run and the only change is that I feel I have betrayed myself. :(

Lift weights.

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Originally Posted by Demon Dude

All this healthy living stuff got me doing some exercise. I just came back from a run and the only change is that I feel I have betrayed myself. :(

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I intend to re-start my old jogging routine eventually. I just know that when I do... the first day is going to suck.

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

Lift weights.

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smurf that.

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Originally Posted by TrollHunter

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Originally Posted by Demon Dude

All this healthy living stuff got me doing some exercise. I just came back from a run and the only change is that I feel I have betrayed myself. :(

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I intend to re-start my old jogging routine eventually. I just know that when I do... the first day is going to suck.

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I find that my main problem is the ice cream vans and fast food places I run past which tempt me with their fatty delights.

lift weights. or you'll look like 'that guy'

I'm fairly okay when it comes to muscles because I used to do exercise fairly regularly but I have little enough motivation as it is. The jogging is mainly because I'm having trouble sleeping and I've been feeling gross lately so I feel that I need to do something to balance my lifestyle a bit. I'm not a healthy person, I drink often and smoke irregularly.

Every male over the age of 15 or so should do some kind of resistance exercise if you ask me... It just seems to make us look and feel better.

People look too much into this. Drinking water for three days sounds like an excellent way to lose weight, albeit an unhealthy one. But if weight is lost then well done.

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Originally Posted by Dreddz

People look too much into this. Drinking water for three days sounds like an excellent way to lose weight, albeit an unhealthy one. But if weight is lost then well done.

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..... :O_O:

I feel like this has already been covered...but once you start eating again, any weight you lost will be gained right back and then some. And would you really want to lose muscle mass and keep all the fat?

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Originally Posted by Araciel

Every male over the age of 15 or so should do some kind of resistance exercise if you ask me... It just seems to make us look and feel better.

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EVERY HUMAN SHOULD DO IT

Not because I'm a fanatic but because IT'S HEALTHY

enjoy your osteoporosis

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Originally Posted by Peegee

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Originally Posted by Araciel

Every male over the age of 15 or so should do some kind of resistance exercise if you ask me... It just seems to make us look and feel better.

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EVERY HUMAN SHOULD DO IT

Not because I'm a fanatic but because IT'S HEALTHY

enjoy your osteoporosis

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It can't be emphasized enough. Weight training is great exercise; you get bigger/stronger muscles, stronger bones, and you burn more calories at rest.

Doesn't do much for the face though does it, Julie?

Can't help you out there, buddy. Sorry.

Did she really just pack up and leave like that? o.o

Well yeah she did. She hasn't posted since then. At least she's true to her word right?

how the hell do you even gain weight? It's bloody impossible.

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Originally Posted by Peegee

how the hell do you even gain weight? It's bloody impossible.

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Eat. More.

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

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Originally Posted by Peegee

how the hell do you even gain weight? It's bloody impossible.

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Eat. More.

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I'll just get fat. Anyway all joking aside I put in yet another meal to my diet.

Protein?

Damnit. Not all weight gain problems are due to protein deficiency. I just don't know what to eat within the dietary fat / carb food groups that won't just make me horribly fat

Chimp told me to eat a bag of flour. he's a jerk.

You know you want to look like him. Oh look poking him forms a mile wide bruise!
(SPOILER)http://www.motifake.com/image/demoti...1259539907.jpg

that can not be real.

it's not xD

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Originally Posted by TrollHunter

You know you want to look like him. Oh look poking him forms a mile wide bruise!
(SPOILER)http://www.motifake.com/image/demoti...1259539907.jpg

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Why are there so many posts on this message board that make me want to gouge my eyes out :eek:

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Originally Posted by AngelWings8

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Originally Posted by TrollHunter

You know you want to look like him. Oh look poking him forms a mile wide bruise!
(SPOILER)http://www.motifake.com/image/demoti...1259539907.jpg

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Why are there so many posts on this message board that make me want to gouge my eyes out :eek:

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we're awesome

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Originally Posted by Peegee

how the hell do you even gain weight? It's bloody impossible.

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eat a bag of chips every day! wash it down with a milkshake!

I like the occasional Crisco and bacon grease sandwich.

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Originally Posted by Peegee

Damnit. Not all weight gain problems are due to protein deficiency. I just don't know what to eat within the dietary fat / carb food groups that won't just make me horribly fat

Chimp told me to eat a bag of flour. he's a jerk.

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You don't drink protein shakes, right? smurfing just add a shake to one of your meals. Bam.

Or take my step-by-step diet for men. My regime will guide you 24 hours a day, the DD way! (oh god)

9:00am: Wake up, roll off your bed and onto the floor. Hoover up crumbs with your mouth - if hungover, then finish the beer you were drinking.

9:30: Burn toast, give it to dog. Give up and grab some chocolate digestives. Cup of tea with two sugars.

11:15: Light snack time. If at home, BLT sandwich. If at work, try and find some time to go to Maccy D's or KFC. Don't be fussy, get a meal and get a discount.

12:00: If weekend, you're probably feeling better. Have some neat vodka shots. If weekday, go to the nearest Starbucks, Costa, wherever, and get a hot chocolate with marshmallows and a cake for good measure.

3:00: Milkshake. 3:00 is always milkshake time. None of that Protein tit either.

5:00: Snack before dinner. Usually chocolate or crisps - both if you feel like it.

7:00: DINNER. Pizza with extra mozzarella, kebab, fish and chips, whatever. Treat yourself, and if you have a girlfriend/wife eating with you, steal half of their portion. You'll both be feeling better for it.

8:00: Cake time.

10:00: Beer or fatty drink. Depends on tomorrow's schedule and how busy you are.

1:30: Get up at midnight and drink milk (full fat) and make a sandwich.

4:00: Get up again and eat those leftover crusts from that sandwich earlier.

Vomiting is expected, don't worry. If you're sick, it means you're doing a good job.

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Originally Posted by AngelWings8

And again, I don't think a HIGH carb diet is good for you, and I think that's what your emphasizing. But I don't think a NO carb diet is good for you either. I think if you're going to eat carbs, you should focus more on complex carbs and cut out simple carbs. I also think people need to be eating more good fats. I use olive oil in everything, eat tons of fish, and I'll admit I love whole milk, steak, eggs, salami, prosciutto, bacon...all that fatty goodness. My diet typically consists of more protein and good fats, veggies (and I'm trying to eat more fruit), and a SMALL portion whole grains.

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I may not have been clear enough in my earlier posts but I agree on a high carb diet not being good, but also that people shouldn't take it to the absolute opposite extreme of no carbs. Some carbs should be consumed in the diet in the form of vegetables, some fruit, and what little you'll get from nuts or seeds. I do however advocate not eating grains of any kind, even whole grains, or starchy vegetables for that matter. The majority of people simply aren't adapted to eating them well enough to do it on a regular basis. If you eat a lot of grains and have no problems with obesity, various blood markers, or wild swings in blood sugar and insulin production then congratulations, you may be one of the lucky few who don't get adverse chronic health problems from eating them. But if you do have problems with any of these, try cutting grains out entirely. A lot of people notice that their general health improves when they do, and some chronic health problems are either reduced in severity or disappear completely when they stop eating grains and starchy vegetables.

The biggest immediate problem with grains in particular is that the carbs you get from them get converted to glucose by the liver and cause the rise in blood sugar. And they tend to pack a lot of carbs relative to the actual amount of food you eat. So while it would be quite difficult to fit in 40g of carbs in a single meal from vegetables, you can blow right past that easily just by having a sandwich and end up feeling hungry sooner once your blood sugar crashes after the huge spike. Also to clarify, I'm using you in the general sense and not to refer specifically to you AngelWings8.

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Originally Posted by AngelWings8

And you mentioned that it isn't until recently that we've had these problems because of our modern farming methods. What about the introduction of processed foods into our modern diet? Packaged, processed, and refined foods are what I've attributed to this country's obesity problem. Overeating as well as high-fat, high-calorie, high-sodium and high-sugar fast food and soda meals seem more likely to be the problem than a few slices of whole grain bread.

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I agree that processed and refined foods are also a huge problem. They may even be the single biggest factor in obesity and diet related health problems growing over the last half a century. The main problem being that so many processed foods are filled with a lot of sugar. It seems to be the go to thing to add to make all of that crap palatable. Overeating is also a problem, but it's not hard to understand why it happens to some extent. When you spike your blood sugar constantly with foods high in sugar and carbs you set yourself up for the crash that inevitably comes a couple of hours later leaving you feeling hungry again. And when these processed foods are full of so many empty calories to begin with, it makes it even worse since it's easy to eat 3-4,000 calories worth of processed food, assuming you can actually stomach it. And eat too much of just about anything and I won't be surprised to see someone gain some weight. I disagree with tossing high fat in there though. Certainly the wrong kind of fat is a problem (trans fats and fats from vegetable oils especially), but unsaturated and saturated fats from meat, nuts and other sources could be consumed in much higher quantities than the USDA or the Canadian government recommend with no ill effects that have ever been proven by any study. But again, I think this is something we probably agree on.

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Originally Posted by Peegee

how the hell do you even gain weight? It's bloody impossible.

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If you're not lactose intolerant then I'd recommend adding whole milk to your diet and focusing on heavy compound lifts. Squat, Deadlift, Cleans, etc. You will in all likelihood gain some fat as well, but it's one of the better ways to make sure you get enough food in you to support muscle growth. Once you're at or a bit over your desired weight, you could cut back on it or cut it out altogether to cut the fat. Add some conditioning work if you feel you aren't burning the fat off quickly enough. Don't bother running long distances though since that will result in more muscle loss than necessary. Try short fast intervals of sprints, swimming, biking, or start throwing in some Cross Fit workouts in addition to your usual weight lifting. It will improve your overall fitness and help avoid muscle loss from doing lot's of long slow exercise like jogging longer distances.

If you happen to be lactose intolerant (which I think a lot of asian people tend to be if I'm not mistaken) get your ass to McDonald's and order a Quarter Pounder or Big Mac a few times a week. And no, I'm not actually joking about that.

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Originally Posted by demondude

7:00: DINNER. Pizza with extra mozzarella, kebab, fish and chips, whatever. Treat yourself, and if you have a girlfriend/wife eating with you, steal half of their portion. You'll both be feeling better for it.

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lol...my experience has usually been me not being able to finish my portion and forcing my boyfriend to eat it for me even if he's full.

Oh, and I stand by the 10pm beer suggestion. Drink lots of beer. It's good for you :-D

It's good for the soul, and that's what is most important.

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Originally Posted by AngelWings8

Oh, and I stand by the 10pm beer suggestion. Drink lots of beer. It's good for you :-D

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When it comes down to a choice of whether or not to drink beer, smurf every single thing I have ever said against having too many carbs and toss a few back. :beer:

Haha Vivi, I think you and I agree on MOST parts of our debate. More protein and good fats, less processed/refined foods, less sugar and carbs. And perhaps I just haven't had issues from eating whole grains yet, but I'll take your suggestions into account if I ever do come across some chronic health problems. But for right now, I like not being constipated :-D

:beer:

You just reminded me that I actually meant to touch on your comment about fiber a bit. Personally, I've never had trouble hitting the amount of recommended fiber in my diet by just eating vegetables and nuts. Now granted, I'm bigger and eat more than most people so hitting about 30g of fiber from those sources is pretty easy for me. But that said, the times my diet has been low on fiber I really haven't ever had constipation issues. I'd say most people are going to get what they need if they're eating vegetables, fruit, and nuts through the day until they feel satisfied after their meal. If you do that and still end up constipated then you can always try tweaking the diet a bit to include more vegetables and less of something else (there's not really any one proper ratio of protein, carbs, and fat in the diet for everyone), or maybe resort to a fiber supplement if needed.

Really though, it's all about trying different quantities of food and seeing what happened. You can start with roughly equal amounts of protein, carbs and fat from better quality foods and see how that goes in terms of weight loss, muscle gain, mood, energy level, how long you go before feeling hungry again etc. From there tweak it a bit and see how things change. It could help to keep a food log where you write it all down as well so you can go back and compare. But that's if you're really interested in finding out where the sweet spot in your diet is. If you don't want to over think it that much, just focus on real food and make sure you get plenty of protein and fat in there. Pretty much everyone will see benefit from doing that.

Lost 5 lbs
Have a smaller apetite
Have more energy
Walked 7 miles today - havnt done that in two years
Throw all the science you want at me, I feel good. Better than I have in a long time. My moods have improved considerably and I am sleeping much much better.

I am happy I did it. That is all

I depart once more

I was going to say that this is a prime example of why we shouldn't let teenagers be members, but I looked at her profile and she's 22. Her entire membership I thought she was like sixteen. Yeesh.

Congratulations on having an opinion that differs from other people's, shion! It's a shame you can't seem to extend others the same courtesy.

...she's not a teenager? :O_O: I thought she was as well.....

You can be against water fasting all you like

I did it
I am happy about it

You think its wrong
dont do it

Where am I missing the courtesy?
Or is it because I feel I should be able to post without being insulted?

One person told you not to be an idiot, and you ragequit over it. He even got a warning for it. I don't see what you're so buggered about.

If you want to try intermittent fasting just eat for 6-8 hours a day

If you want to just drink water, note that you are not getting enough calories. You also aren't getting enough nutrients and minerals. For the love of all that is holy, eat a multivitamin.

And don't do this crap for more than a day. During the weekend I can consume as little as 1000 calories because I will only eat one, two meals max. but that's nothing compared to just drinking water.

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Originally Posted by ShlupQuack

I was going to say that this is a prime example of why we shouldn't let teenagers be members

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I am offended by this.

Anyways, my point being, I did it, I survived, am still in good health (btw, my Iron deficiency is gone) and I feel good.

I have an appointment with a dieticien (I dunno if thats the name in english) tomorrow for the rest of my dieting needs. No one said I was gonna make this a regular thing. I did it its done and I am happy I did it.

wait how did not eating iron cure you of anemia??

i'm so confused by this thread I'm going to eat a bag of chips because apparently the only way to gain weight is to be fat

Nobody meant to offend you, they just disagreed with your method is all. Like if I made a thread about how I want to adopt a puppy from my neighbor and everybody told me to go to Petco instead. They don't do it to insult me, they're just trying to give me advice and share information with each other about the puppy adoption process. Except for one person who told me it was a really stupid idea because I don't know, maybe my neighbor produces terrible puppies or something, but even that guy is trying to help, he just wasn't very tactful about it (and was given a warning because we don't like rudeness!). As I'm sure you've discovered, everyone has their own ideas about the best way to diet in any given situation.

While it's never something I would try, I'm glad the fasting did work out for you.

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Originally Posted by ShlupQuack

One person told you not to be an idiot, and you ragequit over it. He even got a warning for it. I don't see what you're so buggered about.

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Pretty much my opinions on this subject. I don't see the reason to ragequit because no one agrees with your methods. Especially when most if not all of them are trying to help you. One person insults you... so what?

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Originally Posted by TrollHunter

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Originally Posted by ShlupQuack

I was going to say that this is a prime example of why we shouldn't let teenagers be members

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I am offended by this.

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Then my job here is done.

ETA: Alright, let's not everyone tell shion what for, please. I'm sure she gets the point. I mean, the above are fine, but let's not have everyone keep repeating the same thing.

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Originally Posted by shion

Lost 5 lbs

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Water/muscle weight. Also, your weight fluctuates a lot just during the course of one day.

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Originally Posted by shion

Have a smaller apetite

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Starvation mode.

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Originally Posted by shion

Walked 7 miles today - havnt done that in two years

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It's just walking. This should only be hard for landwhales.

But if it feels good, who cares? Like I said, a fast can be a good kick-in-the-pants. I often use fasts like that; it makes it easier for me to then get back into a proper diet and exercise routine. And what's wrong with that? Must everything we do be the ultimate healthy choice? Isn't it fine to just do what works for us?

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

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Originally Posted by shion

Walked 7 miles today - havnt done that in two years

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It's just walking. This should only be hard for landwhales.

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...I must be a landwhale :O_O:

Actually, I've never measured how far I walk when I go to museums or zoos...but on a daily basis I doubt walking to/from the bus stop and around the office is more than a mile.

Oh, and I'm curious about the disappearance of iron deficiency as well...don't you need to take iron supplements or ingest more iron in your diet to treat that? And wouldn't you need bloodwork done to determine if the deficiency is gone?

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

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Originally Posted by shion

Lost 5 lbs

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Water/muscle weight. Also, your weight fluctuates a lot just during the course of one day.

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Originally Posted by shion

Have a smaller apetite

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Starvation mode.

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Originally Posted by shion

Walked 7 miles today - havnt done that in two years

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It's just walking. This should only be hard for landwhales.

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man you're pushing it with these comments xD

I want to post my 'different body types of women' pic but I would get in trouble again :(

walking is easy. Humans can walk for tens of hours at a time.

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Originally Posted by ShlupQuack

But if it feels good, who cares? Like I said, a fast can be a good kick-in-the-pants. I often use fasts like that; it makes it easier for me to then get back into a proper diet and exercise routine. And what's wrong with that? Must everything we do be the ultimate healthy choice? Isn't it fine to just do what works for us?

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Ultimate healthy? God no. I still drink soda and eat fast food from time to time. But water fasting for a few days and actually thinking it's a good thing is pretty dense.

HI there,
Water fasting is really much helpful also and most of the person use this one therapy to stay fit and in the better one shape out there.... I think that many of the person will surely got much amazing results out there...

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Originally Posted by kamani

HI there,
Water fasting is really much helpful also and most of the person use this one therapy to stay fit and in the better one shape out there.... I think that many of the person will surely got much amazing results out there...

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:| No.

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

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Originally Posted by ShlupQuack

But if it feels good, who cares? Like I said, a fast can be a good kick-in-the-pants. I often use fasts like that; it makes it easier for me to then get back into a proper diet and exercise routine. And what's wrong with that? Must everything we do be the ultimate healthy choice? Isn't it fine to just do what works for us?

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Ultimate healthy? God no. I still drink soda and eat fast food from time to time. But water fasting for a few days and actually thinking it's a good thing is pretty dense.

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speaking of which it's been a couple of months. I'm going to get a small bag of chips at some point in the future

no rush.

Eh, every now and then if work has dropped off I tend to get into a 'go to sleep at 5:00am, wake up at 1:00pm' routine, and to snap myself out of it I'll pull an all nighter and force myself to stay awake till 7:00pm or something. It'll usually get me on the right track towards sleeping and waking up at a normal time. It's not healthy, but it's a quick fix that helps me get into a healthier habit afterwards.

Like shlup said, if Shion uses this as a 'kick in the butt' then I don't see the harm (more so if she says she didn't have a problem with it). I still say this thread totally should have been in EoEO though, it's so boring.

I don't think missing one night of sleep is the same as starving yourself for a few days; last I checked you didn't start sleeping a bunch more after resetting your circadian rhythm.

"See, now you're throwing too many big words at me, and because I don't know what they mean I'm going to take them as disrespect...so first thing; shut your mouth."

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Originally Posted by Happy Noodle Boy

"See, now you're throwing too many big words at me, and because I don't know what they mean I'm going to take them as disrespect...so first thing; shut your mouth."

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asl?

if you don't eat for 3-4 days, the correct thing to do is to eat at your TDEE for the day that you are eating.

Surprisingly if you don't sleep for 3-4 days the correct thing to do is not to sleep for 24-32 hours but to sleep for 6-8

My TDEE is between 2956 and 3004 apparently. Nice.

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

My TDEE is between 2956 and 3004 apparently. Nice.

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Being able to eat 3500 Kcals to maintain your body mass must be nice n_________n

i wish i were that fat. I'm almost there!

Eat more, lift more!

exercise is bollocks. why can't i just eat chips and candy and get lean and muscular?

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

I don't think missing one night of sleep is the same as starving yourself for a few days; last I checked you didn't start sleeping a bunch more after resetting your circadian rhythm.

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I don't know about that. The less I eat over a couple of days, the less I want to for the rest of the week. Like, I'll be eating a third helping at dinner one day, and then the next couple of days I'll skip both breakfast and lunch because I just don't have the time, and then after that I won't be able to finish a salad in one sitting until I work myself back up to it again. I heard not eating makes your stomach shrink, but I don't think that's quite right. I think it's more like your stomach is less stretchy? In any case, I can buy that eating less makes you want to eat less. Totally fasting probably isn't the healthiest way, but if it's just a one-time thing I wouldn't worry about long-term effects. Sleep deprivation on the other hand only seems to work because the body needs to catch up.

^ 'fasting', or more accurately starving yourself has the benefit of lowering your metabolism and making you less hungry.

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Fasting is an exceptionally ancient, and powerful, approach to healing many common disease conditions. It allows the body to rest, detoxify, and to heal. During fasting the body moves into the same kind of detoxification cycle that it normally enters during sleep.

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Tip: Any practice that promises to flush "toxins" out of your system is more than likely based on nothing but baseless pseudoscience. Ask proponents what sort of "toxins" they are talking about, and they will look confused. It's like asking Deepak Chopra how his beliefs have anything to do with quantum mechanics, and you discover that he just uses the word to sound more legitimate and less obnoxiously stupid.

A lot of "alternative" medicine has been used for thousands of years. But it is called "alternative" because it doesn't work. Fasting is not healthy and definitely not a good way to lose weight.

I dunno. The human liver has been around for hundreds of thousands of years and it flushes toxins out of the body all the time.

I think you should rethink your 'history = truth => fallacy' claim

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Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

I don't think missing one night of sleep is the same as starving yourself for a few days; last I checked you didn't start sleeping a bunch more after resetting your circadian rhythm.

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I don't know about that. The less I eat over a couple of days, the less I want to for the rest of the week. Like, I'll be eating a third helping at dinner one day, and then the next couple of days I'll skip both breakfast and lunch because I just don't have the time, and then after that I won't be able to finish a salad in one sitting until I work myself back up to it again. I heard not eating makes your stomach shrink, but I don't think that's quite right. I think it's more like your stomach is less stretchy? In any case, I can buy that eating less makes you want to eat less. Totally fasting probably isn't the healthiest way, but if it's just a one-time thing I wouldn't worry about long-term effects. Sleep deprivation on the other hand only seems to work because the body needs to catch up.

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I'm not saying it won't make you less hungry (that's your metabolism grinding to a halt), just that it is dumb to try and lose weight that way. Losing good weight requires exercise, a good diet, and lots of work. There is no easy way to lose weight.

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

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Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

I don't think missing one night of sleep is the same as starving yourself for a few days; last I checked you didn't start sleeping a bunch more after resetting your circadian rhythm.

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I don't know about that. The less I eat over a couple of days, the less I want to for the rest of the week. Like, I'll be eating a third helping at dinner one day, and then the next couple of days I'll skip both breakfast and lunch because I just don't have the time, and then after that I won't be able to finish a salad in one sitting until I work myself back up to it again. I heard not eating makes your stomach shrink, but I don't think that's quite right. I think it's more like your stomach is less stretchy? In any case, I can buy that eating less makes you want to eat less. Totally fasting probably isn't the healthiest way, but if it's just a one-time thing I wouldn't worry about long-term effects. Sleep deprivation on the other hand only seems to work because the body needs to catch up.

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I'm not saying it won't make you less hungry (that's your metabolism grinding to a halt), just that it is dumb to try and lose weight that way. Losing good weight requires exercise, a good diet, and lots of work. There is no easy way to lose weight.

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What about heroin?

Liposuction.

Both of those are expensive. With liposuction, you're still a fatty and probably will eat like one.

or stomach worms. checkmate julie

Alright, you get stomach worms and let me know how that works out for you, brah.

Gastric band then.

omfg this thread is stupid. Shut up.

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Originally Posted by demondude

Gastric band then.

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They only use those if the person is too weak to stick to a diet and exercise regime. :p

How in the world has this thread reached 8 pages?

It hasn't. It's only on page 3.

I go with smaller pages because I hate scrolling through one huge page, so in my setting it was indeed 8 pages.

WHAT DID I SAY?

Something along the lines of "blah blah blah."

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

There is no easy way to lose weight.

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There's also amputation. But the funny thing about all the easy ways to lose weight is that they generally don't do anything about the titty diet or lack of physical activity so most people still eat terrible food, are still unhealthy, and are still headed for health issues like heart disease or diabetes. They'll just take up fewer seats on the bus while they do it.

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Originally Posted by fire_of_avalon

WHAT DID I SAY?

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What Raist said. If you think the thread is stupid then a novel approach to dealing with it would be to not click on it. To do anything else would be to assume that any of us care if you think the thread is stupid and in my case at least you would be incorrect. /smug

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

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Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

I don't think missing one night of sleep is the same as starving yourself for a few days; last I checked you didn't start sleeping a bunch more after resetting your circadian rhythm.

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I don't know about that. The less I eat over a couple of days, the less I want to for the rest of the week. Like, I'll be eating a third helping at dinner one day, and then the next couple of days I'll skip both breakfast and lunch because I just don't have the time, and then after that I won't be able to finish a salad in one sitting until I work myself back up to it again. I heard not eating makes your stomach shrink, but I don't think that's quite right. I think it's more like your stomach is less stretchy? In any case, I can buy that eating less makes you want to eat less. Totally fasting probably isn't the healthiest way, but if it's just a one-time thing I wouldn't worry about long-term effects. Sleep deprivation on the other hand only seems to work because the body needs to catch up.

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I'm not saying it won't make you less hungry (that's your metabolism grinding to a halt), just that it is dumb to try and lose weight that way. Losing good weight requires exercise, a good diet, and lots of work. There is no easy way to lose weight.

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The fasting isn't to lose weight, it's to decrease your appetite, making it easier not to cheat on the aforementioned good diet :p

Not that it's fool-proof :|

Man, why can't you people just exercise and eat whatever you want? Diet is the EASIEST PART - just stop eating trash and oops women will look great. It's called recomposition diet and it happens magically!

http://dudelol.com/img/what-women-th...ly-happens.jpg

The iron deficiancy has nothing to do with the water fast, it was just a side note

I put on my pants today and there was no muffin top. I was happy. Still am happy.

Yes the water fasting was motivation for me. Its not like I am planning on doing it again. (Soup fast maybe) I eat better (and less) and have been doing increasingly more exercise. Went swimming at a lake (thats right) and we swam about halfway across to a little island and back. My legs hurt so bad. Will be going camping and hiking and swimming this weekend.

Been writing again. I am at chapter 5 of my book. I am not entirely satisfied but I am told it is normal to have to rewrite so now I am just focusing on getting my main idea out there. I will worry about the details later.


ANYWAYS my point being I feel good.
Btw I don have internet so scuse me if I don answer for a few days. I gotta haul ass to the library. Which is uphill. In the rain (sometimes).

Ima do before and after pics on my weight loss journey

I could do the same but I don't feel like it. But it would be something like 15 lbs in 4 months, which I can do reliably as I've done it on purpose (ie I purposely gain weight) every year since I was 29

By sheer coincidence:

I stopped eating since about 1am last night. this morning I had a glass of water and went to the gym. I still haven't ate.

I hope you didn't faint :O_O:

I always try to eat when I'm hungry...but this past week I've had instances when I go all day without eating and only drinking coffee cause I was so busy at work :-/

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Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NorthernChaosGod

I don't think missing one night of sleep is the same as starving yourself for a few days; last I checked you didn't start sleeping a bunch more after resetting your circadian rhythm.

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I don't know about that. The less I eat over a couple of days, the less I want to for the rest of the week. Like, I'll be eating a third helping at dinner one day, and then the next couple of days I'll skip both breakfast and lunch because I just don't have the time, and then after that I won't be able to finish a salad in one sitting until I work myself back up to it again. I heard not eating makes your stomach shrink, but I don't think that's quite right. I think it's more like your stomach is less stretchy? In any case, I can buy that eating less makes you want to eat less. Totally fasting probably isn't the healthiest way, but if it's just a one-time thing I wouldn't worry about long-term effects. Sleep deprivation on the other hand only seems to work because the body needs to catch up.

---

I'm not saying it won't make you less hungry (that's your metabolism grinding to a halt), just that it is dumb to try and lose weight that way. Losing good weight requires exercise, a good diet, and lots of work. There is no easy way to lose weight.

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The fasting isn't to lose weight, it's to decrease your appetite, making it easier not to cheat on the aforementioned good diet :p

Not that it's fool-proof :|

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She didn't say anything like that in the OP. :|
"I heard it is not only good for weight loss, but also good to cleanse my body and remove excess bad stuff"

But she talked repeatedly about her appetite in later posts! And she mentioned meeting with a diet specialist.

Oh, I'd like to know how the appointment with the dietician went.

Even if it lowers your appetite, it isn't permanent. If you resume your original eating habits you'll be worse off than you started. It might be a good "jump-start" as people have mentioned, but no one should go in expecting miracles. And should be prepared for the slower metabolism. And know that your body is capable of cleaning out "toxins" by itself...especially if you're young and in generally good health.

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Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪

But she talked repeatedly about her appetite in later posts! And she mentioned meeting with a diet specialist.

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That's after the fact. >:[

And it lowers your metabolism, so it's not like a lower appetite really helps.

And this stupid reply box is really getting on my nerves now.