Quote Originally Posted by Bolivar View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post

1) Home town was destroyed cause Shin-ra betrayed them. It creates motive but Barrett spends the entire game running away from the fact he was responsible for this incedent. He's aware he's responsible and starts to make amends due to Dyne but its never resolved even though the game creates a perfect opportunity to do it. The real problem though is that Barrett is wraught with guilt over allowing Shin-Ra to destroy his home. Kain has jealousies between a friend who is not only well more liked and respected than he is but also has the heart of the woman he secretly loves. Between these two, a player may sympathize with Barrett more cause he's suffered worse, but they relate and understand Kain better cause his problems are not outside the realm of possibilities for average people. Yes this establishes why Barrett acts the way he does but the game never expands on it in a way to allow him to grow except...

2) Has epiphany that both sides are neither good or evil. Now while I will admit that this is rather deep and profound its a baseless statement when placed in context of the games story. Where does Barrett come up with this revelation? When does Shin-Ra ever redeem themselves and show a good side? Cause they tried to save the planet from the WEAPONS and Meteor? Please, they blame the whole thing on Avalanche, and their methods are almost as damaging to the planet as they things they are trying to stop. Also Shin-Ra never states why they did this other than we don't want the world to end. They are saving themselves and would probably never care about anyone else. Course this is assumption but either way you look at it, you can't confirm it was a selfless act. Besides, if Shin-ra redeemed themselves, why does the party spend the entire second disc trying to stop them from saving the planet?

This thread will probably be shut down but if you wish to continue discussing it through PM I am more than happy to do so.
woah! Kanno, back from the dead. I was gettin worried. Anyway, i forgot what the hell we were arguin about... I guess all i got to say to your post:

1) that doesn't seem to be what Barret's story is all about. The issue is resolved if you remember the Corel episode during the scramble for the Huge Materia *cough*Crystals*cough*. He and the miners realize that the blame is rightfully placed on Shinra, and that they're stronger working together. I can relate to to the concept of kain's struggle, but not to the character. There's no backstory to it and it's not delved into on any level...quite unlike Barret.

2) He discusses this if you talk to him on the highwind, i believe on the way to midgar. And i don't think i've ever said Shinra redeemed themselves. Save the Turks and Reeve, the whole of them act selfishly evil throughout the entire game, which is why I was surprised with Rufus expressing regret in Advent Children (i think the game intended him to stay dead). Barret instead realizes that not everyone who works for Shinra is evil, and comes to understand that his original methods weren't the right way to go about it. This is tremendous development, which is absent from older characters, like Kain. But I believe that Kain's refusal to deal with what he's done right away played well for the story of FFIV.

It's good to hear from you again and I hope all is well. Things have been pretty boring on here.
Glad to be back for awhile. Personal life has been taking a hit but in a good way. I'm always happy to have stimulating conversation with you Bolivar

Anyway...

1) The problem with the Corel scene is that Barrett is optional; which brings me up to my earlier point of having a wonderful setup to let his character shine but its wasted. Barrett doesn't even have to be there and the townsfolk come to this revelation. Even if Barrett is in your party the scenario doesn't alter to put him in account which is really sad and disappointing. I know I give Barrett a lot of smack but I actually do like him. Granted having him there gives a sorta feeling it might affect him, his lack of interaction makes it a poor scene to cite as a revelation for his character.

Kain does have little in detail of backstory compared to Barrett but he makes up for it with actions and a few choice words. He confesses to Cecil after Golbez's defeat that even though he had been corrupted it was based on true feelings of envy and jealousy, his feelings for Rosa are shone true beforehand cause his first thought when he awoke was to save Rosa rather than face Cecil. He betrays you many times but counters by saving your party's life afterwards. When he permanently joins you he fights with Edge who still refuses to trust him (for good reason) and Kain honorably chooses the path to let Edge kill him if this scenario happened. In the end, Kain chooses to leave and take his own journey of redemption that Cecil took. He knows he is weak but he strives to be strong cause he knows he cannot be happy fulfilling his own selfish desires. Of anything Kain's ending speaks volumes of his character if you are willing to delve a little deeper.

2) Once again an almost optional scene but as I stated he never gives any evidence how Shin-Ra isn't evil and just comes up with this epiphany. Its mostly speculation. I must laugh cause at this point the whole party literally devolves into a 2nd grade class assignment of "What I learned on my journey with Cloud!" where every character magically tells you their wonderful epiphany in the game, except VII doesn't have Kefka telling you to "shut up and how you sound like pages from a self help booklit" Granted half the character do have well thought out answers it's just that story evidence doesn't make Barrets nearly as compelling as say Cid's epiphany. Perhaps the reasons were there, but I can't agree that the story told it well. I still feel that VII does have good writing its just not spaced out as well as I would like which is my problem with VI and IV.