The Cardinal Sins of Game Design

So everyone has them. Those few tropes, those repetitive WHY elements that are consistently stuck into otherwise awesome games. We shake our fists angrily at the screen, moan, whine, plead for it just to be over so we can get back to what we liked about the game. Eventually it is, but it's only a matter of time before that level just pops up in a new game, ruining your rhythm and totally messing with your enjoyment again.

My personal peeves are:

We took all your cool guy stuff, and you have to complete a level using restrictive/alternate gear in order to get it back. HAHAHA YOUR LEARNED TACTICS MEAN NOTHING. Notable Abuser: Alan Wake's "You only get flashbangs now" level.

You know what this game needs? Racing. Yeah, we know, this is a third person action game. But screw it, everyone likes racing. No, you have to win or you can't go on to the next level. Sorry. Notable Abusers: Sly Cooper and the Thevius Raccoonus, Beyond Good and Evil

So you had a blast playing this game right? I mean really, you've played all the way through to the last level, you MUST enjoy the gameplay here. So we're going to shake things up a bit, and make the last bit of the game COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the game you've been playing so far. Have fun dying repeatedly, turning your dramatic escape into a cavalcade of trial, error, and rote memorization. Notable Abusers: Devil May Cry, Halo, Portal


Now, don't get me wrong, I am not calling any of these games bad. In fact, they are ALL among my favorite games. These are just some of my personal pet peeves when it comes to game design. You have anything that just makes you say "Oh hell, this again?!" ten seconds into a level?

ESCORT MISSIONS

I'm lookin' at you, RE4.

I liked the racing Halo missions. Especially the achievement in Halo 3 to do the last level with 4 people on Ghosts.

I hate when things are overly dependent on a Random Number Generator. It's a necessary component of most RPGs, to be sure, but in certain situations I have seen developers lean on it like a crutch.

A few months back I was helping to beta test an online anime-themed card game called Sword Girls. Conceptually, it looked a lot like Magic: the Gathering, so I thought this would be neat to play. After playing about 50 games or so, I quickly realized that the flow of the game -- and by extension, the likelihood of winning and losing -- was really random. You have virtually no control over what happens in a turn. You just put down a few cards and click "Go". The rest happens by itself, and you just watch. So I complained about this (as did about a hundred other beta testers). We were basically told that the developers made this game intentionally random. The RNG is the engine that drives the game, and they tried to feed us a ton of BS about all the different strategies you can employ even though the game itself is random. I would have none of it, and I left.

So, back on point: RNG is good in some cases, bad in others. Don't EVER make it the driving force of a game.

Not being able to remap the controls. This is the twenty first century, there isn't any reason not to give me the ability to control the game as I like.

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Originally Posted by GhandiOwnsYou

So you had a blast playing this game right? I mean really, you've played all the way through to the last level, you MUST enjoy the gameplay here. So we're going to shake things up a bit, and make the last bit of the game COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the game you've been playing so far. Have fun dying repeatedly, turning your dramatic escape into a cavalcade of trial, error, and rote memorization. Notable Abusers: Devil May Cry, Halo, Portal

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While I agree with the sentiment here, I disagree with your using Portal as an example. Every part of Portal up until the escape is meant to train you to use the Portal gun. To get you to learn what it can do, gradually build on what you learn, and get you to recognize situations and surfaces where it can be used, and how it can be used. The escape doesn't change anything except that you now have one long interconnected area to get through instead of smaller test chambers, and the visuals are different. But all of the situations that you encounter are ones you've already seen, and while there is more to see and do, that's the point. You're now an expert at using the Portal gun and it's time to throw you into an unfamiliar situation so you can really show off your skills.

As to game design decisions I hate with a passion, fetch quests are a big one. If the best quest you can come up with is go get me 10 of these and 15 of those then there's a good chance I'll stop playing your game, because that sort of busy work is one of the most boring things imaginable, and 9 times out of 10 you're a bad game designer padding game length artificially if you use them. At the very least couple it with exploring a new area so I don't want to kill myself.

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

Not being able to remap the controls. This is the twenty first century, there isn't any reason not to give me the ability to control the game as I like.

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I once read a GamePro issue in either the late 90's or early 2000's where in the letter section someone asked the editor under the alias Major Mike why he always knocked off half a point on the controls score if you can't customize them and would make a point of always pointing it out in his reviews. He said that he once talked to someone at Capcom to find out how long it would typically take for them to implement fully customizable controls in a game. They said it would be half a day to a days work usually.

There is a reason that has stuck with me so vividly for so many years. There is absolutely no excuse for not implementing so basic and simple a feature in a game. Ever. Sure, I love when a company works at perfecting their default control scheme, but nothing pisses me off more than having no option to change it if I don't like it. One of the things I absolutely despised about Resistance 2 was that the controls were almost nothing like COD4 (the other thing I despised being everything else. Zing!), which at the time was about as perfect as I could imagine console FPS controls being. But I couldn't just change them to match that and had to suffer through pressing the wrong buttons half the time.

And this is coming from someone who has never failed to learn and get comfortable with a control scheme inside of 15 minutes. I was halfway through the game and still trying to press buttons like it was COD4.

Permanently missable stuff that doesn't even have any good reason to be missable.

I love Tales of Vesperia, but I just don't get why you MUST see an easily missable event mid-game in order to unlock the super boss dungeon at the very end of the game. That's just stupid.

I dunno about cardinal sins. Every decision I generally hate, I can think of a way it's been done that I actually like. Like underwater segments, escort missions, vehicle segments. None of these things have to be bad.

Not speaking in level terms, but I really despise the fact that almost every game seems to have some kind of collectibles. For a lot of games it doesn't fit the gameplay at all.

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Originally Posted by Ultima Shadow

Permanently missable stuff that doesn't even have any good reason to be missable.

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Defiantly.

I don't want to have to play the game with a FAQ by my side to make sure I am not screwing myself for later. Some of us just want to relax and play the game.

Almost any racing game. Absurd rubber band AI. This is why I stopped caring about Mario Kart.

When hard mode just means you can't get shot any more than 3 times rather than the AI becoming harder or puzzles more difficult.

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Originally Posted by Sephex

Almost any racing game. Absurd rubber band AI. This is why I stopped caring about Mario Kart.

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Ugh. This is the reason I haven't enjoyed a Mario Kart game since MK64. The rubber banding was annoying in that, but it managed to get a lot worse after. When I played Mario Kart Wii I remember actually being disgusted with the experience because they'd finally crossed the line into race outcomes being decided more by random chance than anything resembling skill.

Item balancing is why I don't play Mario Kart any more. It's a party game now. Whether you win or lose is based more on randomness than actual skill. Getting bukkakked with blue shells is not fun for me.

Mario Kart 64 4 lyfe.

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Originally Posted by Sephex

Almost any racing game. Absurd rubber band AI. This is why I stopped caring about Mario Kart.

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Have you ever played Crash Team Racing? You don't have to worry about rubber band AI there. Of course, I stopped playing CTR because I can win every stinkin' time.

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Originally Posted by Alpha2099

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Originally Posted by Sephex

Almost any racing game. Absurd rubber band AI. This is why I stopped caring about Mario Kart.

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Have you ever played Crash Team Racing? You don't have to worry about rubber band AI there. Of course, I stopped playing CTR because I can win every stinkin' time.

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This. One of the many reasons I love CTR and even CNK much more than Mario Kart.

I also think the weapons are more balanced, except those stupid N.Throphy Clocks when fully charged. Those are kinda broken... unless you can jump off a cliff right as someone activates one (yes, you actually save time by doing that).

They soooooooo need to do a remake with online play.



Back on topic, another thing that bugs me is quests or whatever in RPGs related to finding a specific rare monster... combined with random encounters. It sucks to run around in circles for hours, hoping for that stupid 4% chance monster to show up during the next random encounter etc.

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Originally Posted by Ultima Shadow

Back on topic, another thing that bugs me is quests or whatever in RPGs related to finding a specific rare monster... combined with random encounters. It sucks to run around in circles for hours, hoping for that stupid 4% chance monster to show up during the next random encounter etc.

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I quit the Dragon Quest IX post game for that. Too many side quests depended on that.

See also: Finding the necessary items to save Calca and Brina in Final Fantasy IV TAY.

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

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Originally Posted by GhandiOwnsYou

So you had a blast playing this game right? I mean really, you've played all the way through to the last level, you MUST enjoy the gameplay here. So we're going to shake things up a bit, and make the last bit of the game COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the game you've been playing so far. Have fun dying repeatedly, turning your dramatic escape into a cavalcade of trial, error, and rote memorization. Notable Abusers: Devil May Cry, Halo, Portal

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While I agree with the sentiment here, I disagree with your using Portal as an example. Every part of Portal up until the escape is meant to train you to use the Portal gun. To get you to learn what it can do, gradually build on what you learn, and get you to recognize situations and surfaces where it can be used, and how it can be used. The escape doesn't change anything except that you now have one long interconnected area to get through instead of smaller test chambers, and the visuals are different. But all of the situations that you encounter are ones you've already seen, and while there is more to see and do, that's the point. You're now an expert at using the Portal gun and it's time to throw you into an unfamiliar situation so you can really show off your skills.

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I can see the argument behind Portal, and I actually typed and deleted it once or twice before I decided to stick it on there. I had ZERO issue with the escape, I thought it was handled rather brilliantly actually. My contention was with the show down against GLaDOS. The escape was the culmination of everything I think. You're running and blasting and dimension hopping all over the place, and even if it wasn't always time critical, you FELT like you had to be moving with a purpose. Boss fights just seemed like the type of thing that just didn't fit the vibe of the rest of the game. I felt like I was just manically trying to figure out WHERE the next personality core WAS, rather than using the skills I had developed thus far to get to it. I could definitely understand arguments for it, but for me, personally, it just seemed at odds with the play style of the rest of the game. Devil May Cry is really the worst offender on the list. NOW FLY THIS PLANE TROLOLOLOL. So much hate.

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Originally Posted by Ultima Shadow

Back on topic, another thing that bugs me is quests or whatever in RPGs related to finding a specific rare monster... combined with random encounters. It sucks to run around in circles for hours, hoping for that stupid 4% chance monster to show up during the next random encounter etc.

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Similar to that, having to find a super rare item that does not involve a quest or boss fight or any challenge, but just fighting the same simple random encounters over and over again. I'm looking at you, FFXII, Suikoden II.

How about Water = Death. Seriously, the hero can topple elder gods, destroy entire cities, eliminate entire crime syndicates by their self, and take fifteen shotgun shells to the face at point blank range but auto-magically be okay by finding a first aid kit in a bathroom, but homie can't swim? That kinda drives me nuts. I understand we need to have reasons why you can't fall off a platform, or set borders on levels, but really. Can't we come up with some other reason other than the savior-warrior-adventurer-god character never learned to doggy paddle?

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Originally Posted by GhandiOwnsYou

How about Water = Death. Seriously, the hero can topple elder gods, destroy entire cities, eliminate entire crime syndicates by their self, and take fifteen shotgun shells to the face at point blank range but auto-magically be okay by finding a first aid kit in a bathroom, but homie can't swim? That kinda drives me nuts. I understand we need to have reasons why you can't fall off a platform, or set borders on levels, but really. Can't we come up with some other reason other than the savior-warrior-adventurer-god character never learned to doggy paddle?

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Agreed. It amazes me how many games incorporate water as a death device.

Eh. Water deaths are just different-looking bottomless pits. Mechanically, they're the same thing.

I would be fun to have a quick cut scene of your armor dragging you down to the bottom and drowning every time you enter water. :D

I've mellowed out over the years, I'm not as easily annoyed by some things anymore. Rare item drops crap just means I don't bother, because I stopped being anal about being a completionist and I like that they do give me some incentive to come back to a game.

My cardinal sins:

This is for JRPGs specifically, though Final Fantasy/Squenix are easily the sole offenders on the market. Building gameplay around the post game. I am sick and tired of having the main storyline quest be incredible easy and downright tedious just because all the best equipment and abilities are designed to be used for all the super hardcore bosses that unlock around the time the final dungeon opens up. It makes the story part feel like a chore, it also makes it feel super linear cause often there is nothing to do until the end of the game, and the main storyline is usually ridiculously easy cause the leveling system is designed for those end game creatures and I can still get access to those infinity +1 swords before I ever run into the ultimate monsters. It doesn't help that the post-game is also mainly a giant grindfest to face off against stronger monsters and nothing more. FFX and FFXIII are easily the biggest offenders.

Creating a game around a specific gameplay mechanic, but then clumsily throwing in another gameplay mechanic to make it appeal to a larger audience. I'm looking at you Mirror's Edge, you have a great FP platforming experience and the challenge is just trying to get the right rhythm to keep going continuously. Then you decided we had to have some unskippable forced combat sequences, except you poorly designed it and it really runs counter to the game's story and characters, for what? So Little Bobby Boy can get an FPS fix? smurf you.

The Action Stealth genre - You don't exist. You're always one, with a few elements of the other, but you have never been able to balance both. I'm sad that stealth seems to have lost the relevance battle and seems to be dead. Not to mention you spend so much time balancing one aspect you once again leave the other horribly unbalanced. Old Snake is a literal one man army in MGS4, so who needs stealth? Altair and Ezio are murdering machines, who have become even more overpowered in combat with each new entry in the franchise. I just miss the days when stealth actually meant something and victory actually hinged on it instead of success just meaning I don't get to do a 10 minute one sided killing spree. :mad: Granted AC does give you missions where stealth is imperative and being discovered means auto-failure, so it might be making a comeback, I'm just sad my favorite series has trivialized it after they were the ones that put the genre on the gaming map.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

The Action Stealth genre - You don't exist. You're always one, with a few elements of the other, but you have never been able to balance both. I'm sad that stealth seems to have lost the relevance battle and seems to be dead. Not to mention you spend so much time balancing one aspect you once again leave the other horribly unbalanced. Old Snake is a literal one man army in MGS4, so who needs stealth? Altair and Ezio are murdering machines, who have become even more overpowered in combat with each new entry in the franchise. I just miss the days when stealth actually meant something and victory actually hinged on it instead of success just meaning I don't get to do a 10 minute one sided killing spree. :mad: Granted AC does give you missions where stealth is imperative and being discovered means auto-failure, so it might be making a comeback, I'm just sad my favorite series has trivialized it after they were the ones that put the genre on the gaming map.

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yes! the only time you really needed to be stealthy in mgs4 was that first part of the prague mission...
although in deus ex it is a fun way to go through the game...you don't have to, but you have the option.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I've mellowed out over the years, I'm not as easily annoyed by some things anymore.

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I find that funny because I find that as I've gotten older I've become more bitter and hateful when it comes to things I consider bad game design. Stuff I used to tolerate all the time even 10-15 years ago pisses me off to the point that I abandon some games entirely.

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Creating a game around a specific gameplay mechanic, but then clumsily throwing in another gameplay mechanic to make it appeal to a larger audience. I'm looking at you Mirror's Edge, you have a great FP platforming experience and the challenge is just trying to get the right rhythm to keep going continuously. Then you decided we had to have some unskippable forced combat sequences, except you poorly designed it and it really runs counter to the game's story and characters, for what? So Little Bobby Boy can get an FPS fix? smurf you.

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I agree with the general sentiment, but I disagree mostly with using Mirror's Edge as your example. Only because there are very few combat sequences which aren't avoidable if you really want to just run, and even less which involve being in combat for more than 10-20 seconds at a time. It does get quite bad towards the end, but I actually found that almost a welcome change of pace as combat is introduced quite gradually in the game. The only part that really annoyed me was the fight with the masked runner on the ship. That was absolutely an unwelcome pain in the ass.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

This is for JRPGs specifically, though Final Fantasy/Squenix are easily the sole offenders on the market. Building gameplay around the post game. I am sick and tired of having the main storyline quest be incredible easy and downright tedious just because all the best equipment and abilities are designed to be used for all the super hardcore bosses that unlock around the time the final dungeon opens up. It makes the story part feel like a chore, it also makes it feel super linear cause often there is nothing to do until the end of the game, and the main storyline is usually ridiculously easy cause the leveling system is designed for those end game creatures and I can still get access to those infinity +1 swords before I ever run into the ultimate monsters. It doesn't help that the post-game is also mainly a giant grindfest to face off against stronger monsters and nothing more. FFX and FFXIII are easily the biggest offenders.

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The funny thing is this would be super easily fixed with a few triggers thrown in to strengthen the last boss/dungeon based on what post game you had accomplished. FF7 even had shades of this by giving Sephiroth more HP the more characters you have at level 99 or if you used KotR earlier on Jenova. This is so easy to do.

Inconsistent camera controls. Ideally, first person is normal, third person is inverted. First person you are moving the head. Third person you're moving a camera swinging around the character. Bonus points if a game let's me adjust for both POVs. If I can't have this, okay fine, but I at least want it to be consistent. Both axes are normal or they are both inverted. If one axis is inverted and the other isn't I will scream :mad2:

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Originally Posted by GhandiOwnsYou

How about Water = Death. Seriously, the hero can topple elder gods, destroy entire cities, eliminate entire crime syndicates by their self, and take fifteen shotgun shells to the face at point blank range but auto-magically be okay by finding a first aid kit in a bathroom, but homie can't swim? That kinda drives me nuts. I understand we need to have reasons why you can't fall off a platform, or set borders on levels, but really. Can't we come up with some other reason other than the savior-warrior-adventurer-god character never learned to doggy paddle?

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My favorite was drowning in a fountain in Assassin's Creed.

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

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Creating a game around a specific gameplay mechanic, but then clumsily throwing in another gameplay mechanic to make it appeal to a larger audience. I'm looking at you Mirror's Edge, you have a great FP platforming experience and the challenge is just trying to get the right rhythm to keep going continuously. Then you decided we had to have some unskippable forced combat sequences, except you poorly designed it and it really runs counter to the game's story and characters, for what? So Little Bobby Boy can get an FPS fix? smurf you.

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I agree with the general sentiment, but I disagree mostly with using Mirror's Edge as your example. Only because there are very few combat sequences which aren't avoidable if you really want to just run, and even less which involve being in combat for more than 10-20 seconds at a time. It does get quite bad towards the end, but I actually found that almost a welcome change of pace as combat is introduced quite gradually in the game. The only part that really annoyed me was the fight with the masked runner on the ship. That was absolutely an unwelcome pain in the ass.

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I disagree that it wasn't a deal breaker. The combat system is just awful in this game and while I can appreciate trying to find effective ways to not engage the enemy and escape as being fun, the actual sequences where you are forced to stand your ground and fight are just so frsutrating, with awful controls, with your character being incredibly ineffective in a fightcause most guards can pistol whip you once and have you almost dead, and some of the most awkward counter timing controls I've ever encountered in a game, it's like they purposely made them troutty cause they didn't want you to win. These segments are so atrocious I stopped playing the game, especially since as I said, even from a story perspective, it's out of character for the MC to be fighting directly and using guns to gun down people. It is the most glaring fault in an otherwise, good game. You have no idea how much I hate these sequences.

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

This is for JRPGs specifically, though Final Fantasy/Squenix are easily the sole offenders on the market. Building gameplay around the post game. I am sick and tired of having the main storyline quest be incredible easy and downright tedious just because all the best equipment and abilities are designed to be used for all the super hardcore bosses that unlock around the time the final dungeon opens up. It makes the story part feel like a chore, it also makes it feel super linear cause often there is nothing to do until the end of the game, and the main storyline is usually ridiculously easy cause the leveling system is designed for those end game creatures and I can still get access to those infinity +1 swords before I ever run into the ultimate monsters. It doesn't help that the post-game is also mainly a giant grindfest to face off against stronger monsters and nothing more. FFX and FFXIII are easily the biggest offenders.

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The funny thing is this would be super easily fixed with a few triggers thrown in to strengthen the last boss/dungeon based on what post game you had accomplished. FF7 even had shades of this by giving Sephiroth more HP the more characters you have at level 99 or if you used KotR earlier on Jenova. This is so easy to do.

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I mostly agree, though I feel it would only solve part of the problem. I'm also talking about just having fun side-quests and stuff that don't unlock until the end game. If you don't like FFX and XIII's plot, you are so screwed until you get to the end part of the game and the game finally remembers its suppose to have more content. I'm actually surprised cause playing through Xenoblade Chronicles right now, I've had a whole wealth of side-quests available from the moment I could control the character. The entire opening part of the game from a story perspective could be finished in less than an hour before it finally told you to leave the starting town and explore the world, yet I've clocked in over 11 hours because I've had tons of side-quests to do, and the starting area is pretty huge with tons of secret places and rare monsters to fight. This is incredibly refreshing for a JRPG where most other titles would basically throws you into a roller coaster ride of the plot until the very end.

Once again we have to agree to disagree about the virtues of mid-game sidequests in RPGs.

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

Once again we have to agree to disagree about the virtues of mid-game sidequests in RPGs.

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Well until the writing in JRPGs get better, I'm going to insist on having something to keep me entertained during the lull that is the main game. :p

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I disagree that it wasn't a deal breaker. The combat system is just awful in this game and while I can appreciate trying to find effective ways to not engage the enemy and escape as being fun, the actual sequences where you are forced to stand your ground and fight are just so frsutrating, with awful controls, with your character being incredibly ineffective in a fightcause most guards can pistol whip you once and have you almost dead, and some of the most awkward counter timing controls I've ever encountered in a game, it's like they purposely made them troutty cause they didn't want you to win. These segments are so atrocious I stopped playing the game, especially since as I said, even from a story perspective, it's out of character for the MC to be fighting directly and using guns to gun down people. It is the most glaring fault in an otherwise, good game. You have no idea how much I hate these sequences.

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We'll have to agree to disagree then because even though those fight portions were totally out of place, I found them incredibly easy. The way they typically went down was this:
-run to the nearest guard
-enter bullet time
-wait for gun to turn red (and I do mean wait because it took forever)
-counter to knock him out and take his gun
-shoot everyone else
-carry on with the game

The combat may have been clunky, it may not have fit with the game, and it could have been dealt with a lot better. But honestly, most situations were something you could easily deal with in under a minute by doing the above. I can't say I ever had the slightest trouble with them at all when I came across them, nor did they frustrate me in any way other than getting between me and running. But they're all over so easily and so quickly I can't see them as anything other than a minor annoyance in a game which is otherwise one of the most enjoyable I've ever played.

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

We'll have to agree to disagree then because even though those fight portions were totally out of place, I found them incredibly easy. The way they typically went down was this:
-run to the nearest guard
-enter bullet time
-wait for gun to turn red (and I do mean wait because it took forever)
-counter to knock him out and take his gun
-shoot everyone else
-carry on with the game

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Alternatively:

-Run and slide kick them in the shins
-Kick them in the face to finish them off while they're bent over going all like "OH MY SHINS"
-or-
-casually walk behind them and rear disarm them

Combat was boring, but it was also super easy. If you have trouble, play it on Easy. It's not like the difficulty level affects anything but the combat.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

Once again we have to agree to disagree about the virtues of mid-game sidequests in RPGs.

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Well until the writing in JRPGs get better, I'm going to insist on having something to keep me entertained during the lull that is the main game. :p

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My solution is typically to just stop playing and spend my time on something else more worthwhile. ;)

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I disagree that it wasn't a deal breaker. The combat system is just awful in this game and while I can appreciate trying to find effective ways to not engage the enemy and escape as being fun, the actual sequences where you are forced to stand your ground and fight are just so frsutrating, with awful controls, with your character being incredibly ineffective in a fightcause most guards can pistol whip you once and have you almost dead, and some of the most awkward counter timing controls I've ever encountered in a game, it's like they purposely made them titty cause they didn't want you to win. These segments are so atrocious I stopped playing the game, especially since as I said, even from a story perspective, it's out of character for the MC to be fighting directly and using guns to gun down people. It is the most glaring fault in an otherwise, good game. You have no idea how much I hate these sequences.

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We'll have to agree to disagree then because even though those fight portions were totally out of place, I found them incredibly easy. The way they typically went down was this:
-run to the nearest guard
-enter bullet time
-wait for gun to turn red (and I do mean wait because it took forever)
-counter to knock him out and take his gun
-shoot everyone else
-carry on with the game

The combat may have been clunky, it may not have fit with the game, and it could have been dealt with a lot better. But honestly, most situations were something you could easily deal with in under a minute by doing the above. I can't say I ever had the slightest trouble with them at all when I came across them, nor did they frustrate me in any way other than getting between me and running. But they're all over so easily and so quickly I can't see them as anything other than a minor annoyance in a game which is otherwise one of the most enjoyable I've ever played.

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They drag the game down for me because they are unnecessary and while encountering guards and having the option to fight them is fine by me, I can't tolerate the fact I have to devolve an otherwise intriguing game into being a silly unskippable FPS for no really good reason. The game is about free running in first person, why is there combat? If you are going to force combat into a game, make it worthwhile instead of making it half-ass like this game did. :mad2:

VeloZer0 - My solution is to just buck up and enjoy the ride. :cool:

i didn't think it was half assed at all... most of the unskippable fight sequences were pretty much quicktime events (what're they called again?)
the final floor with the guards can also be done without fighting, as you can use the guards to your advantage, but i reckon it'd take some planning.

for the record i forgot about going into slow motion for most of the game...i found one use for it during a complicated jump...wasn't necessary otherwise. which leads me into this:

slow motion. not need for it in games that aren't designed to be john woo films anyway (max payne is ok. in fear it is a little bit ok. maybe in the matrix games.)

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Originally Posted by krissy

slow motion. not need for it in games that aren't designed to be john woo films anyway (max payne is ok. in fear it is a little bit ok. maybe in the matrix games.)

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Vanquish would like a word with you.

is it any good? i'll look into it if you say yes.

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Originally Posted by krissy

is it any good? i'll look into it if you say yes.

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It's VERY good.

JKTrix, come in here and say it's very good.

Approved. <==(Click)

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

VeloZer0 - My solution is to just buck up and enjoy the ride. :cool:

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Sorry, for some crazy reason I got it into my head that you were old and jaded. :lol:

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Originally Posted by Roto13

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Originally Posted by krissy

is it any good? i'll look into it if you say yes.

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It's VERY good.

JKTrix, come in here and say it's very good.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JKTrix

Approved. <==(Click)

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What these guys said. Seriously, the game is absolutely smurfing amazing. One of the best titles I bought this generation.

trailer looks like a romp
also sega haha nice
will get
thanks team

If your game can and will only allow two player co-op, it should be splitscreen. If it allows more than two people, it should be online.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quin 'n' Tonic

If your game can and will only allow two player co-op, it should be splitscreen. If it allows more than two people, it should be online.

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I would say if your game allows 2-4 person coop or multiplayer, and doesn't have split screen, then die in a fire. I don't know how I forgot this one before. During my last deployment, both me and my roommate blew all our spare time on games, there was almost nothing else to do. I can't even count the number of times one of us would buy a game that advertised co-op or versus, only to find that it was only online and we could not play each other. So aggravating. I remember running into an issue with Borderlands that drove us nuts too. My roommate had been playing since it came out, I decided to buy a copy of the Game of the Year version they had just released so we could system link. It kept telling us our versions were incompatible, we never did manage to get it working.

Adding on to the earlier Mirrors Edge debate, I never felt like the combat was unnatural at all. It was always quick, evasive. There wasn't really anything in the game where I felt like i was being forced into an FPS. In fact, when I did use a gun, I felt like I was only doing it because I wasn't good enough to get by quick and speedy. To prove the point that the game designers just wanted you to be damn good, strike like a ninja and run on, there's even a trophy for not firing a shot during a playthrough.

I got that trophy my first playthrough, just because I thought it was cool.

@VeloZer0 - I'm not as old and as jaded as I make myself out to be. Besides, sometimes you have to look at a situation objectively and decide whether your lack of enjoyment in something is purely the fault of the activity itself or whether your own attitude and pride has become a stumbling block keeping you from just enjoying something. :jess:

While I'm firmly in the camp of "games are art" and as a new medium of storytelling; it doesn't mean I can't enjoy some silly trashy minigame collection romp here and there, or some silly flash game on my PC. I still play my Wii frequently, which most of the professed "hardcore gamers" will consider an unforgivable sin and proof that I don't deserve to be considered a "real gamer" but I still find the system fun and I still feel that motion gaming can have a future in the game market, but that's a discussion for another time and thread. My point is that while I do feel the old days have some wonderful merits, and often superior design choices, that has been lost in the glamor of graphic whoring, and CPU dick waving between the Big 3, it doesn't necessarily mean I feel all games that don't do it like the old days are inferior. Like yourself, I'm actually not wild on the idea of A.I. parties in RPGs, but I also feel that Persona 3, FFXII, and now Xenoblade Chronicles have made very strong cases for showing me that such a design choice can still be fun, rewarding, and not have to sacrifice control and strategy. So, while I'm certainly old, I'm not as jaded as I pretend to be. :p

Also, Capcom. Everything they do.