Quote Originally Posted by Bolivar View Post
To stop this great thread from falling into oblivion, I wanna suggest a new issue, about Matsuno's "code of ethics" on Ivalice's code of ethics.

Spoilers!

In the Ivalice gams so far, it has been the intention that none of the characters are entirely good nor wholly evil. In FFT, characters who do horrible things (Funeral, Wiegraf in Ch. 1, Delita) believe that they are really doing what's best for society. In FFXII, you see this, and the protagonists aren't necessarily good, as most of them are motivated by revenge.

But I gotta say, in both games, there are indeed characters who are purely evil. Vormav for example. He just wants to resurrect demons and unleash all hell upon the world (to put it bluntly). Vayne has killed his 2 older brothers, his father, and has screwed over kingdoms for the sole purpose of his power-hungry egoism. In lierature/stories (and in real life, to me atleast) doing harm to one's brothers (or sisters) is an indicator that the person cannot be trusted/is in fact evil. Bergan is also a prime example in that he (for no reason, not even ordered to) starts massacring (sp?) the Kiltias of Mt. Bur-Omisace, even slaying the Gran Kiltias. I mean wtf. The dude does it for the sole fact of allowing Vayne to have his ascendancy so they can have "power".

And I would have to say in FFT (although i've not seen the creators explicitly state that FFXII's morality aim was the same goal for this) Ramza is completely good. He only believes in doing good to people, and goes as far as to stop those who have those same intentions but to do so with less than noble means. There couldn't be a holier character.

So I guess that's my rant, that although the world of Ivalice's morality is intended to be ambiguous, it doesn't live up to that 100%. But it does a damn good job of it for the most part.
Thanks for saving my thread!

For your points, I agree that many characters are actually evil while others are actually good. Vormav always gave me the impression that he was Hashmal in disguise. I could be wrong though, I'm mostly basing this on the fact that most of the Lucavi you meet have been in possesion of people killed.

I don't feel there is enough evidence about Vayne's murder of his brothers though. We never did get to see what they were like. Though your other points are quite valid. The game does give the impression that Vayne's murder of his brothers was both completely unexpected and brutal. Bergan as well as Ba'Gammon are both characters who seem to have really no sense of good within them. While Penelo, and even Alma and Teta from Tactics can be thought as purely good.

As for Ramza, I think he's more complex than that though. His sense of justice was so strong, strong enough to make him have little thought in killing his eldest brother. If he was written to be truly good, he would have had more misgivings. I never got the impression Ramza wanted to kill him but I did feel Ramza knew his brother deserved it. That's why he didn't really hesitate.

I wonder, if Ramza had actually become aware of what Delita was doing to achieve his goal, if he would have tried to stop him, even if it meant killing him?

Another thing to think about. Is Marche a hero or a villain? Since we are discussing the morality of the series, we can't forget the character ho really sparks debates