You see, I just never really saw it as a big deal and I have never felt like pulling the camera back did anything for those places. Of anything, I just felt it was more of a cheap way to cover up how rather boring they were but then again, FF really never did do mountain dungeons well if you ask me.Originally Posted by Flying Arrow
As for Rostum's example, I would be more impressed if the scene in question was relevant and not just Sephy throwing a piece of materia at Cloud and flying off. Whatever tension it had is lost by how silly it is executed. Out of context I can agree but the problem here is that it doesn't address the issue of its practicality for the game side of an RPG. the Fixed camera/pre-render set-up is solely for storytelling and pretty much limits what is capable for the dungeon itself. If a cutscene hadn't taken place at that scene, then that would not only be a weird angle for a part of a dungeon you're just casually walking through, but also boring for level design cause its simply a straight path with no gameplay purpose. That's my issue here, its aesthetic strengths only serve to help one side of the game. While I can agree that its an effective tool for creating visual stimuli, I can't agree its practical for gameplay or making a dungeon fun to play through. If you really think about it, some of the best dungeons in VII like the Shin-Ra building are presented to you in a visual format similar to a 16-bit RPG with an overhead 3/4th angle view that often shown more than the character in question could see.
The problem is, you are talking about a technique that existed in the old days of RPGs cause everything utilized the in-game engine. There was no need for transition, but here's the real issue, we've gone so long with transitions into better higher quality cinematic cutscenes and dialogue sets for ten years, I seriously doubt the transition issue is something that bothers players anymore, hell most would expect it, suddenly going back to an old school approach seems weird.... what? When the dialogue is at the beginning of a level, there is no visual transition when you go back into the gameplay. When the dialogue is at the end of the level, there is no visual transition when the text starts coming. With free camera, there is virtually always a visual transition. Hence you claiming it to be "just as noticeable" is untenable when there's obviously an additional, visual factor on top of the dialogue and lack of controller input.
I think this all comes from playing DQV cause I get thrown off when the game moves out of my control, but I don't witness a transition. It has been so long since I played a game that relied solely on its in-game engine and map layout to tell a story that its a bit jarring to play something relatively new to me that does it like the old days. It doesn't help that I tap buttons when I stop moving and accidentally skip some dialogue either... I think I had a simlar issue with the opening of MGS4 cause while the transition from cutscene to game is smooth it doesn't work as well the other way around.
With the way modern media presents story telling through film and television through fast paced cut-aways and quick transitions, I feel that the issue of total visual transition is a moot argument with today's media crowd. I feel only when the game does it obnoxiously so, like FFX or XIII where you can't walk three yards without instigating a cutscene does it become even noticeable to me. I still find it hard to believe you would criticize FFX, XII, and XIII because they transitioned from gameplay to story with a total visual and non-interactive transitioned. I would assume you would say its normal and kind of silly to argue that its detrimental to a gaming experience when its been the norm since the PSX days.
Xenogears taught me that gameplay doesn't matter. It just doesn't. You can have a pure gameplay experience such as, say, Gears of War, that does everything of its genre right in an unbelievably polished way, introducing a few innovations of its own, and even going as far as to point where gaming itself is headed over the next few years. But a game like Xenogears, with a humongous cast, various intruiging plot threads, intelligent writing and translation, an attempt at a few themes, powerful visual images, and phenomenal music scoring those scenes... it simply isn't going to matter that the latter game also has unpolished battle design, a shallow combat system, uninspired puzzles, TERRIBLE platforming, boring encounters, scripted bosses, and monotonously repetitive dungeons that have had noticeably little effort put into them. Xenogears is an incredible story inside a terrible video game, but it will always be more memorable and have a stronger impact on me than even the perfect gameplay experience ever could.
I'm just glad I'm at the final dungeon so I can go back to Valkyria Chronicles II[/QUOTE]
A great plot will allow you to forgive so many issues, unfortunately for me, Valkyria Chronicles has kind of shown me the opposite is true. A game can have a great and innovative gameplay experience that is fun and inventive to play through, but come across as an unplayable mess with the most boring generic plot based off every single war anime cliche in the book, filled with an unrealistic cast of characters who would be more at home in a comedic anime than a hard military tale and the game has the most insufferable layout for moving the plot along, when the main menu feels like you're in a debug room you know someone wasn't trying. I still haven't finished VC because the plot is so bad.
Yet my point in all this is that don't you feel Xenogears would be a greater game if it had the gameplay to back it up for you? Doesn't it seem silly to build a game with the story as the main form of entertainment and the game part just acts like some kind of irrelevant padding? Shouldn't a game strive to do well on both spectrum's of the entertainment wheel instead of putting all their bets on one facet of the experience? Going back to my original argument about using the camera solely as a cinematic tool, doesn't that seem like it limits the game cause the dungeon has to be more about the visual appeal rather than being designed for the portion of the game about the player interacting with the world? The cinematic camera has its place in story portions but it really doesn't bring anything to dungeon design that great visuals and good music can't already provide.
The Magitek Factory in FFVI throws the player off with a visual steampunk display that has not been seen anywhere else in the game. It is accompanied by one of the most sinister themes in the game that utilizes percussion instruments to further push the idea of an industrial nightmare, but it also is a an engaging dungeon to play through because it has several secret rooms and locations to find, it utilizes minor switch elements to access different parts of the level through lifts, allows you to travel through pipes, you the player can't quite make out where its going, and conveyor belts that lead to whole new section of the dungeons you didn't even realize were there. Its Escher style layout is what makes it one of the more fun dungeons to playthrough in VI, not because the atmosphere is great, its backed up by some fun design as well. VII does have dungeons like this but even you would have to agree they are not exactly the most visually stunning designs that took full advantage of any cinematic camera like the Sector 4 underpass that lead to the Sector 5 Reactor, which amounted to several ladders, pipes, and metal stairways. It was still fun trying to get to far off items and being turned around though, and I feel that is more important than it being visually stunning.
Reply With Quote