Square-Enix Confirms Layoffs, Denies Impact on MMOs

Guild Wars 2
and I understand that the numbered names draw some fans but also, turned off many others.

Guild Wars 2 is pretty different to FFXIV in some fundamental ways - or at least, this is the impression I'm getting from those that have played both games along with the information I can find on GW2.

Yes GW2 strays from the DPS/Tank/Healer build of other MMO's but, it's a MMO at it's core and offers the same features just about ever other MMO does. And they're making a push for GW2 PvP to become a esport !

Either way, I don't want Square to die so I hope it does well enough to not tank the company but damn that's pretty sad that a company like this needs a MMO to save it :/

The free MMORPG with content comparable to AAA studio developed titles is a myth. There are many non-subscription-based MMORPGs on the market, but most of the "free-to-play" titles operate on a "freemium" model with cash shops. Some (The Lord of the Rings: Online) do this better than others (Star Wars: The Old Republic), but ultimately just about any major-release MMORPG involves some form of payment to enjoy content that is otherwise included as part of a subscription package.

Guild Wars 2 is the best example, but it's not free. You paid the retail price to get the game, and you'll be paying for expansion. Also vanity cash shop.

Also, maybe I'm misreading your post, Bolivar, but you do realize that Final Fantasy XIV came out two years ago, right? It launched in August of 2010 to an absolutely horrible (and absolutely deserved) reception. By November, the project lead had been shuffled back to FFXI and the reigns were passed on to a new development team. The game operated free of charge until January 2012, at which point they announced that in addition to providing major updates and fixes via patches to Final Fantasy XIV version 1.x, they had been working on an entirely new game engine for a commercial re-release as 2.0. At this point, with a roadmap in place, they began charging monthly subscription fees. Version 2.0 was eventually re-named Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn. It is currently in the final week of its closed alpha test. They have not yet announced whether beta will have a separate application, but the development team has expressed a desire to roll over all existing alpha testers into the closed beta test. There have been no plans for an open beta test announced.

This timeline is delayed from the initial 2.0 timeline released a year ago; according to the developer blog an adjusted timeline which will include the beta test dates and (presumably) a target release date will be released soon (i.e. before the end of the calendar year). The delays have been allowed to happen, as BoB has suggested, because it is absolutely critical for the company that they turn FFXIV around and make it profitable. FFXI was only ever the fourth most popular MMORPG on the market at its peak, and it still has been the most profitable game the company has ever released. You don't have to have WoW's subscription numbers to be a financial success. Square Enix needs FFXIV:ARR to release to success or the company will face some very serious consequences (given that SE's biggest successes lately have been publishing other titles, I would not be surprised to see them move away from large-scale in-house development), and they're giving the development team plenty of time to make sure the game is right this time.

Originally Posted by Bert

Yes GW2 strays from the DPS/Tank/Healer build of other MMO's but, it's a MMO at it's core and offers the same features just about ever other MMO does. And they're making a push for GW2 PvP to become a esport !

I wasn't talking about that end of things, I was more referring to the job/class system, the Final Fantasy 'feel' (chocobos, moogles etc), the crafting system, the materia system, the different style/pacing of combat, the graphics (although I can't speak for this, just going by what I'm told on that end) and the leveling system are all fairly different, which I would say are key proponents. Not to mention GW2 seems much more PVP-centric, although Yoshi-P is a big PVP fan so you never know how that might turn out.

Either way, I don't want Square to die so I hope it does well enough to not tank the company but damn that's pretty sad that a company like this needs a MMO to save it :/

To be fair, if they played their launch right they wouldn't be in this situation. A big game bombing out can destroy a large chunk of a company pretty quickly.

Well I technically didn't "buy" GW2 mom got it for my bithday!

anyways yes it cots money to purchase but, the stuff you can buy in the in game store are just (horribe) armor skins and mini pets and crap. It's not a pay to win type system of other non sub based MMO's.


@ BoB - Yeah I can see the FFness in the games, or well what I played of XI. I get that it's different but I'm guessing there's a healer class a DPS class and a tank class. Same as most other MMO's. I'm not saying this game is going to be horrible or anything but, I just feel like they could just done more with XI than make an entirely new game pretty much twice now.

Originally Posted by Loony BoB

Marketing, PR, probably service support (ie, GMs etc), stuff like that. Not sure about the finer details - Murd or Shlup have been there so they can possibly give you a better idea of the size of their office.

We never got to visit the actual office, sadly. The event took place in the hotel.

Well, this is the same situation that they found themselves in with the original Final Fantasy. Funny how things come back around.

I don't really think it's quite that dire. The company isn't going to go under if FFXIV fails, they're just going to have drastically adjust their overall business strategy. Dragon Quest is still bringing in loads of money, and the various developers they've acquired the past few years for whom they publish titles have done well for them. I would just expect to see a big cut back on ambitious in-house projects. Significant lay-offs. Fewer titles per year, and safer ones (i.e. Kingdom Hearts, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy pillar IPs only).

Arrrrgh that's so crazy because most of what we've gotten over the last 6 years has been FF, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts.

I know what the game is, Ouch, it's just kinda crazy that a company takes 2 years to relaunch a product that was bad at the beginning. I just see a similar thing with XIII: reusing the same resources to make the original better when all anybody wants is a sequel to Chrono Trigger or some new IPs.

I gotta agree with Bert, and not just because I'm also a massive GW2 fangirl (I'm a boy... er, a man!) That subscription model is dead. Only WoW can sustain it, and WoW is dying. Yes, GW charges you for the disc/download (who doesn't?) but GW2 has done so much to reinvent and reinvigorate the MMORPG formula that I doubt FFXIV will be able to compete, especially with subscription fees.

I know a lot of you guys want it to succeed, I do, too, but if it fails, it will be because of an overarching problem that Square has had for a long time now.

I don't think it will fail but if SE was hoping for it to surpass XI, I'm very skeptical that it will accomplish it now, even if it is actually a better game overall. I feel the whole debacle os FFXIV has pretty much crippled this title and while I'm sure they can get it to be profitable, I'm sure they will also be falling back on the XI team to keep XI going strong as well since it will be the main money maker. They also have the DQX coming up as well, so SE will be pushing several MMOs for awhile now.

To be honest though, I wouldn't actually mind if they started condensing their development teams into fewer units to save on cost. Doing the "Get To Know Your Staff" articles, I came to the conclusion that part of the problem with the series and some of the franchises is that they've split up all the talented people and made them in charge of their own department when it was the collaboration of these people that made games great. I'm sure I wouldn't be the only person who would be interested in seeing Kitase and Ito working together again.

I have cautious optimism about XIV, though I would not be surprised if it didn't come up to the expectations of XI sales-wise. In terms of MMOs, Final Fantasy just isn't in everyone's first thoughts. Instead it's GW2, or WoW, or whatever.

Originally Posted by Bolivar

I know what the game is, Ouch, it's just kinda crazy that a company takes 2 years to relaunch a product that was bad at the beginning. I just see a similar thing with XIII: reusing the same resources to make the original better when all anybody wants is a sequel to Chrono Trigger or some new IPs.

You say you know what the game is and then in the next sentence demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of what has been going on behind closed doors for the past two years. Why does it take a company two years to relaunch a product? Because they rebuilt the game. From scratch. Game engine and everything. The only resources that they've kept is concepts, but everything from character models to armor has been completely rebuilt for a new game engine. It's not "I can't believe this has taken two years," it's "I can't believe they've done all this in two years." Whether you expect it to fail or not, there's a reason that Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is getting attention in the MMORPG community: doubling down on a failed product, letting it run free for over a year, and then re-releasing what is, effectively, a new game, is completely unprecedented in the game industry and it has heads turning.

I see people complain that a subscription model system is dead, but I see just as many people lambasting disappointing free-to-play titles. There hasn't been a non-subscription game yet that's pulled the several million people away from World of Warcraft. It's clearly not the juggernaut some users want to pretend it is.

For the sake of those not playing the game: FFXIV A Realm Reborn is to FFXIV (original) what Mass Effect 2 is to Mass Effect. A sequel game in the existing universe with the option of importing your existing character.

EDIT: Actually, it could be said that FFXIV:ARR has even more difference to FFXIV than ME2 does to ME1, because the FFXIV games use different engines while ME1/ME2 use the same one. And BioWare didn't even have to make the engine, which SE did. Which makes the speed of release even more amazing!

I have to underscore what Ouch and BoB have said that it's pretty incredible that FFXIV:ARR has only taken about two years. Especially considering that they were still maintaining and improving FFXIV 1.x during most of this process.

Originally Posted by Ouch!

I see people complain that a subscription model system is dead, but I see just as many people lambasting disappointing free-to-play titles. There hasn't been a non-subscription game yet that's pulled the several million people away from World of Warcraft. It's clearly not the juggernaut some users want to pretend it is.

Maybe they haven't all come from WoW (atleast half of my guild has) but there are an estimated 4.5 million+ GW2 players

4.5m characters, surely? The latest records I can find show 2m copies sold, although that was admittedly back in September. But for it to outsell it's original two or three weeks by 125% since then would be an impressive feat, and if even half of those were WoW then it would decrease their population by a very significant percentage.

Still, I feel that GW2 is fairly irrelevant to the XIV state of play. Everyone raved about Rift on it's release and it sold a million copies and it's dropped significantly since then from my understanding and that's despite shifting to a free to play model. As many players as there are in other games, XIV just has to worry about itself. SE can't control other games, it can just do all it can to equal/better them.

The expected cost of XIV isn't something I see as high, so I'm not bothered. 40 characters, 8 servers, something like £6.99 a month? I forget the exact price but that's something I can easily afford and I'll probably only use one character for the most part anyway.

BoB, buy me a fancy computer to play with you guys when it comes back out. kkthx.

You're better off asking Murd, I'm the poor bastard.

Originally Posted by Bert

Originally Posted by Ouch!

I see people complain that a subscription model system is dead, but I see just as many people lambasting disappointing free-to-play titles. There hasn't been a non-subscription game yet that's pulled the several million people away from World of Warcraft. It's clearly not the juggernaut some users want to pretend it is.

Maybe they haven't all come from WoW (atleast half of my guild has) but there are an estimated 4.5 million+ GW2 players

Like BoB said, none of the numbers I've seen are that high. The other question is how many of those people from WoW have actually canceled their accounts and stopped playing?