• Opinion: Final Fantasy XV is a Bro Fest and I’m Okay With That


    As we've heard, Final Fantasy XV will have an all-male party. Some people have taken offense to this. Although on my own reflection of this news, that doesn’t seem to bother me. Here, in convenient list form, is why.

    It appears to be a deliberate decision made with full awareness of the implications.

    Final Fantasy XV’s main cast is all male, and it was a conscious decision made by both of the game’s directors. Despite this, Director Hajime Tabata admits that “it’s not healthy to have a bias in genders.”

    Tabata said, “The party members being all men was something that [former director] Tetsuya Nomura had kept as a very important element of this journey. He wanted to depict a story in which a group of men, a group of friends, journey throughout the world. So that’s something that I kept inVFinal Fantasy XC.”
    This is important. Contrary to Gamergate propaganda, there are no evil women who want to censor games. Not me, not Anita Sarkeesian, not Zoe Quinn. We just want developers to think about what they’re doing and not auto-fill their games with generic straight, white male characters. If Tabata and Nomura want to make a male-bonding car adventure, that’s cool with me.

    They are not our characters.

    My preference for self-created characters isn’t something I’m quiet about. Outside of the MMO offerings, I’ve never felt that any Final Fantasy character was mine. They’re not even existing characters put in your care, like Geralt in The Witcher. You may be able to choose their gear and skills, but you have very little control over their actions. In a typical FF game, you may as well be watching a movie for all the agency you have when it comes to the behaviour of the characters. I’ve said before that I have no problem with well-developed, well-written male characters. I just don’t like grunting bald bloke with no personality, especially in RPGs. I have no expectation of character control in a Final Fantasy game, why should this one be any different?

    The playable party is not the whole cast.

    Okay, the party is going to be made up of guys. I don’t believe for a second that there won’t be plenty of female NPCs.

    I can give Square-Enix the benefit of the doubt.

    Final Fantasy games usually have a diverse, generally well-written cast. Previous titles in the series have included female protagonists or entirely female parties. This isn’t Piranha Bytes doing another game in which women are treated like poo or entirely absent. When a developer decides to go with an all-male party after decades of decent representation, I’m happy to give them a pass.

    Now, this single piece of news doesn’t really say much about gender in FFXV. It could be horribly misogynist, it could have the greatest female characters of all time. We don’t know. Either way, I’m happy to wait for the game to find out for myself.

    Read more of Caelyn's stuff over at her site ~Freya
    This article was originally published in forum thread: Opinion: Final Fantasy XV is a Bro Fest and I’m Okay With That started by Caelyn View original post
    Comments 49 Comments
    1. Ayen's Avatar
      Ayen -
      Quote Originally Posted by Depression Moon View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal_Khan View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Mirage View Post
      Not always. 3 females out of what, 16 in total isn't a decent ratio
      Who's the three? I dont mind FFXV not having black dudes tho, w/ sazh they proved they don't write well for black characters. Although we should not be surprised by this, Japan has almost zero black ppl and they don't want that to change(their immigration policies would imply as much).
      They don't have many white people over there either, but JRPGs always seem to have them.
      More like they white wash the majority of Asians in their RPGs and anime.

      Always wondered about that.
    1. Wolf Kanno's Avatar
      Wolf Kanno -
      For the most part, I'm not really bothered by it and I feel the blow up has more to do with the Gamergate issue that has caused an interesting and long needed discussion on the topic of female characters in media.

      I still view this as a writer though, and if the story calls for an all male cast then I see no real problem with it as gender really shouldn't matter in a well written piece that works towards a purpose. I would be more annoyed if the creator's forced a female into the dynamic for the sake of marketing when the story didn't call for one. I've always hated the "Token" character that often creeps up in modern media.

      This game was not originally intended to be a numbered entry, so the designers did a lot of things you normally wouldn't see in a mainline FF, but since we all kind of know this, I don't see the point in berating the game for it. This was never meant to be the calculated, focus-group approved, easy to digest FF vanilla we've all come accustomed to, and for better or for worse the game will shake up the series because of that distinction. Let's just relax and enjoy the ride. Well until some of us find out we hate it, then we can start the lynching... I er mean bitching.
    1. Hannibal_Khan's Avatar
      Hannibal_Khan -
      Can someone give me a breakdown of what gamergate is? preferably 5 sentences or less. I tried to read an article earlier but i think i got side tracked and i dont remember what the scandal is..
    1. Momiji's Avatar
      Momiji -
      Hrm. I would definitely be exponentially more interested in XV if it had playable female characters, because I've always enjoyed playing as them more and that's my personal preference and always will be. So as far as it being an all-male cast goes, I think it's unfortunate but it's not damning. As mentioned earlier, if they actually take a few steps forward and write a decent romantic plot between some of them, I think that would be really cool.

      What I am much more turned off by is the oversimplification the game seems to be getting in that you can only directly control one character. What is this, Persona 3? (And even then they fixed that nonsense in the PSP reboot.)
    1. ~*~Celes~*~'s Avatar
      ~*~Celes~*~ -
      Hey guys, don't forget, Final Fantasy X-2 was YuRiPa. The fact that it was a sequel game doesn't really take away from it, imho. Still a female-centered game!
    1. Fynn's Avatar
      Fynn -
      Quote Originally Posted by ~*~Celes~*~ View Post
      Hey guys, don't forget, Final Fantasy X-2 was YuRiPa. The fact that it was a sequel game doesn't really take away from it, imho. Still a female-centered game!
      I keep telling people that!

      We had an all-female party, so why not an all-male one if it fits the artistic vision? And keep in mind it's PARTY, not CAST that is all male. As others have pointed out, there's at least three visible females in this game and they all seem to be (at least hinted to be) important, interesting characters.
    1. Hannibal_Khan's Avatar
      Hannibal_Khan -
      Quote Originally Posted by ToriJ View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Depression Moon View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal_Khan View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Mirage View Post
      Not always. 3 females out of what, 16 in total isn't a decent ratio
      Who's the three? I dont mind FFXV not having black dudes tho, w/ sazh they proved they don't write well for black characters. Although we should not be surprised by this, Japan has almost zero black ppl and they don't want that to change(their immigration policies would imply as much).
      They don't have many white people over there either, but JRPGs always seem to have them.
      More like they white wash the majority of Asians in their RPGs and anime.

      Always wondered about that.
      Yea especially with female characters. Stella looks damn near swedish. We shouldn't be surprised by that either, Alot of women thoughout Asia are increasingly getting plastic surgery to get more caucasion features. The XV male characters still look japanese to me tho. Who wants to bet XV development team is 90%+ male lol
    1. Sephiroth's Avatar
      Sephiroth -
      Quote Originally Posted by ~*~Celes~*~ View Post
      Hey guys, don't forget, Final Fantasy X-2 was YuRiPa. The fact that it was a sequel game doesn't really take away from it, imho. Still a female-centered game!
      But it does take away a bit from it. Sequels, prequels and spin-offs and such very often have a different focus and so traditions in first installments and such often do not appear in them.
    1. Mirage's Avatar
      Mirage -
      Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal_Khan View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by ToriJ View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Depression Moon View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal_Khan View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Mirage View Post
      Not always. 3 females out of what, 16 in total isn't a decent ratio
      Who's the three? I dont mind FFXV not having black dudes tho, w/ sazh they proved they don't write well for black characters. Although we should not be surprised by this, Japan has almost zero black ppl and they don't want that to change(their immigration policies would imply as much).
      They don't have many white people over there either, but JRPGs always seem to have them.
      More like they white wash the majority of Asians in their RPGs and anime.

      Always wondered about that.
      Yea especially with female characters. Stella looks damn near swedish. We shouldn't be surprised by that either, Alot of women thoughout Asia are increasingly getting plastic surgery to get more caucasion features. The XV male characters still look japanese to me tho. Who wants to bet XV development team is 90%+ male lol
      It certainly happens, but I don't think it's a big enough percentage to be called "a lot".
    1. Rostum's Avatar
      Rostum -
      Quote Originally Posted by ToriJ View Post
      More like they white wash the majority of Asians in their RPGs and anime.

      Always wondered about that.
      It's not just RPGs and anime, it's throughout a lot of Asian pop-culture and media. Most Chinese/Japanese/Korean tend to see fairer skin as a lot more attractive than darker skin.
    1. Colonel Angus's Avatar
      Colonel Angus -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rostum View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by ToriJ View Post
      More like they white wash the majority of Asians in their RPGs and anime.

      Always wondered about that.
      It's not just RPGs and anime, it's throughout a lot of Asian pop-culture and media. Most Chinese/Japanese/Korean tend to see fairer skin as a lot more attractive than darker skin.
      They even went as far as turning Aladdin white & giving him a Dutch name like Vaan.
    1. Bolivar's Avatar
      Bolivar -
      Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal_Khan View Post
      Can someone give me a breakdown of what gamergate is? preferably 5 sentences or less. I tried to read an article earlier but i think i got side tracked and i dont remember what the scandal is..
      The "scandal" of Gamergate arose when it came out that a Kotaku journalist had a sexual relationship with a developer he provided coverage for. Some youtube personalities used this as an opportunity to discuss journalism ethics and the close relationship between the media and developers/publishers. Unfortunately, a few bad eggs harassed the crap out of the female dev involved. Kotakuand Polygon lumped this in with the contemporaneous harassment of Anita Sarkeesian (which drove her from her home) as representative of the "#Gamergate" crowd as a whole. Leigh Alexander went one step further and said gamers as a whole are socially-inept misogynists and it's been a giant internet civil war ever since.
    1. Ayen's Avatar
      Ayen -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rostum View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by ToriJ View Post
      More like they white wash the majority of Asians in their RPGs and anime.

      Always wondered about that.
      It's not just RPGs and anime, it's throughout a lot of Asian pop-culture and media. Most Chinese/Japanese/Korean tend to see fairer skin as a lot more attractive than darker skin.
      I wasn't sure how far it went so I just named the things I knew for sure.
    1. Mirage's Avatar
      Mirage -
      When I was in Tokyo, I saw a significant number of females walking around with parasols in the streets to avoid getting anything that could resemble a tan. So yeah.
    1. Fox's Avatar
      Fox -
      In many ways this is kind of a dumb time to be doing an all-male game. Frankly, women in games are woefully under-represented and in the last couple of years studios have finally started getting called out on it quite significantly. And I'm definitely one of the people doing the calling, you look around especially at 'AAA' games and there are just too many straight white dudes hogging the limelight.

      ...However.

      Final Fantasy XV gets away with it here - at least in principle. Usually, one of the defences against putting more women in is "creators shouldn't have to stifle their creativity by putting more women in," which is an argument that falls down because they're not excluding women because of their 'creativity,' they're excluding them because they just don't consider them. Many of us are guilty of this, even me - I'm a straight white dude, so that's what my characters default to in a work of fiction. It does take some conscious effort to change your own prejudices. But in this case the defence I mentioned kinda stands up. Tabata has specifically said this is a story focussing on a theme of brotherhood which is a perfectly valid theme to tackle. That's a genuinely OK story related reason that might mean you leave out female characters.

      We want more women in games not only because we want to better represent a large and growing player base, but because we want more variety and diversity in our games. Focussing on a theme like brotherhood which is very rarely explored is a different way of giving us variety and diversity. The other thing to remember is FF usually has loads of women in it - the last three console games have all had a female lead. Say what you like about the quality of those leads, the fact is they were there and flying the proverbial flag. So this is a series that generally does have its priorities right - that is inclusive and progressive. If the next three games are all just full of dudes, then we have a problem. But just for a one off? I don't think there's really much reason to criticise them.
    1. Hannibal_Khan's Avatar
      Hannibal_Khan -
      Quote Originally Posted by Mirage View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal_Khan View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by ToriJ View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Depression Moon View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal_Khan View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Mirage View Post
      Not always. 3 females out of what, 16 in total isn't a decent ratio
      Who's the three? I dont mind FFXV not having black dudes tho, w/ sazh they proved they don't write well for black characters. Although we should not be surprised by this, Japan has almost zero black ppl and they don't want that to change(their immigration policies would imply as much).
      They don't have many white people over there either, but JRPGs always seem to have them.
      More like they white wash the majority of Asians in their RPGs and anime.

      Always wondered about that.
      Yea especially with female characters. Stella looks damn near swedish. We shouldn't be surprised by that either, Alot of women thoughout Asia are increasingly getting plastic surgery to get more caucasion features. The XV male characters still look japanese to me tho. Who wants to bet XV development team is 90%+ male lol
      It certainly happens, but I don't think it's a big enough percentage to be called "a lot".
      Maybe not as much in japan, but in south korea and china it is "a lot".
    1. Loony BoB's Avatar
      Loony BoB -
      It is perhaps worth noting that from FFX onwards, the ratio of male to female playable characters has been in favour of females when you consider all direct sequels.

      FFX: 4-3 (male lead)
      FFX-2: 0-3 (female lead)
      FFXII: 4-3 (technically male lead, but really depends on whether you feel Vaan, Balthier or Ashe are the protagonist)
      FFXIII: 3-3 (female lead)
      FFXIII-2: 1-1 (female lead)
      LR:FFXIII: 0-1 (female lead)

      Result: 12-14 in favour of females, with mostly female leads and two games where only females were playable (notably in LR, the only character who enters your party from the previous games at any point is Fang, another female).

      If this were on the back of male-dominated games such as VI, VII or IX then I could probably understand a revolt for the 5 males 0 females playable in this game, but we're not in that situation.
    1. FFFFsephychibi's Avatar
      FFFFsephychibi -
      ^ haha that's a lot of ladies in FF!!!

      I was just watching a video analysis of ff15 and the dude narrating it was commenting about how he doesn't like that it's an all male cast and there needs to be a playable female because "the game needs a hott character"

      I cant understand wanting a playable female, to just have the option, and some diversity, but to flat out want a female playable character just to have eye candy and watch her boobs bounce when she attacks isn't really a good reason... She wouldn't be there to add to the plot or the game, just to simply make someone want to wank. And personally I think that's pretty shallow D:
    1. Del Murder's Avatar
      Del Murder -
      And if you don't consider direct sequels? There is just no way a main FF game (not a sequel) would ever feature an all-female cast and that's part of what people's gripe is about. You can throw out any number of combinations to show that SE has a pretty even distribution of male to female cast (and they do a good job there) but that doesn't change the fact that having an all male cast for a main numbered entry is significant. Sequels have much less hype and give Square much more freedom to experiment and it is not a coincidence that all of the female-heavy games have been sequels.
    1. fat_moogle's Avatar
      fat_moogle -
      FFXI and XIV aren't direct sequels and have female leads if you choose to do so

      But seriously, I'm for this for FFXV. "Brotherhood". That's something that's not been done before with FF, I'm looking forward to the banter! It will be good to have a party of TRUE friends, rather than people just randomly put together to fulfil their destiny!

      And it's not like women aren't being represented in FFXV. We have Stella and Luna who will have major roles within the game. Then there's the black haired girl and possibly other unannounced females. I'm sure they will just as prominant, just not playable.
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