• Final Fantasy Sexism Part I: Why It Matters



    The accuracy of the common mantra “sex sells” is apparent in all forms of media: from movies and TV shows to magazines to video games. Sexy, scantily clad female characters in video games are widely celebrated, from Lara Croft to, well, the entire Dead or Alive cast. If you were to ask gamers who the most well-known Final Fantasy woman was, the buxom Tifa Lockhart would undoubtedly be a popular response. But these characters have also received criticism for their appearance.


    Commonly, a female character’s outfit or pose is not out of any practical reason such as protection, comfort, or ease of movement, but to arouse the viewer. If video games were to be believed, skin-tight and revealing clothing is the most comfortable and practical clothing available for all circumstances, and that bending over sexily is the most natural position for a woman to be in. But if the male characters tried to similarly show themselves off, the results would be patently silly. Why is this any more tolerable coming from women?


    If the men posed like the women in comics. "HULK GROPE!"

    A common response to these points is that the game developers are simply giving the audience what they want, and that men enjoy looking at women. And there’s nothing wrong with that, by itself. But the sexist portrayal of women goes deeper than that. It’s not just the aesthetics by themselves, but the entire way women are portrayed in video games, from their appearance to their personality to their role in the story, that is sexist. The biggest problem being that this is not just in video games; this attitude towards women is indicative of a real-world sexism that pervades our entire culture.

    I want to highlight two other types of sexism to you that are readily apparent in video games, and the Final Fantasy series in particular: the overwhelming use of stereotypical gender roles for female characters, and the common dependence that female characters have on more central, male characters to their relevance in the game.

    As far as gender roles go, there are a handful of molds that Square-Enix has used for many of its female main characters. Women are typically seen as weaker and more nurturing than men. Is it any surprise then that women tend to be the physically weak healers and magic users in the games? The characters’ personalities are also commonly cookie-cutter: the demanding princess, the whiny brat, the damsel in distress, the passionate love interest.


    The dependence on male characters is a more subtle sign of sexism, but equally important and just as pervasive. The Bechdel Test for measuring sexism in movies requires that there be two named women in the movie who talk to each other about something other than a man. A shocking number of movies do not pass this simple test, because too many women are either token female characters or their roles are almost entirely dependent on a more primary male character (such as the typical love interest).

    Why do these matter? Because these types of sexism still exist in the real world. While society has improved a lot, women are still commonly viewed only as family-oriented nurturers who should prioritize having a family and raising children. Women are still underrepresented in many of the most respected professions such as doctors and scientists, and are culturally discouraged from putting forth the effort of seeking them. If you have any doubt that this is still a serious issue, just read this embarrassingly bad article about how women shouldn’t “compete” with men. Female representations in video games may be a pretty small issue regarding sexism in the scheme of things, but the larger issues cannot be combated until we recognize how sexism is guiding our culture.

    To see how our cultural views of women pervade our entertainment, just think: how many stereotypically feminine male video game characters can you think of? It is generally acceptable in modern times for women to act stereotypically “masculine” and be strong fighters, but how many lead characters are feminine men? In this same vein, it is generally accepted in real life for women to be “masculine” and do male things, but it is still commonly taboo for men to act “feminine.” Only what is considered for men is an acceptable goal for everyone.


    In the next part of this series, I will start going through the Final Fantasy games and highlighting some examples of sexism. Final Fantasy is certainly not immune from the types of sexism I outlined above, and some of the games in the Playstation 1 and 2 era were particularly bad examples of sexist portrayals of women. But not all of the games were bad, and I think some Final Fantasy games even deserve praise for their treatment of women characters.

    Before I get into the specific games, I will close with a brief disclaimer. I am a Final Fantasy fan, and I enjoyed playing many of these games, even ones which are some of the worst offenders when it comes to blatant sexism. This article series is not about gameplay or plot or how fun a game is, but exclusively about how women have been portrayed among the playable characters throughout the main Final Fantasy series.

    So what were the worst examples of sexism in Final Fantasy? Is the series now better or worse? Is sexism in video games even a problem? My overview of the Final Fantasy series will begin in two weeks, but feel free to discuss your thoughts in the meantime.


    Other parts in this series:

    Part I
    Part II
    Part III
    Part IV
    Part V
    This article was originally published in forum thread: Final Fantasy Sexism Part I: Why It Matters started by Raistlin View original post
    Comments 76 Comments
    1. Raistlin's Avatar
      Raistlin -
      Quote Originally Posted by Dr. rydrum2112 View Post
      As for the cultural influence: I guess from my point of view, stating a role or character trait is sexist because it is traditionally affiliated with one sex does not mean it is.
      I agree with this, and it is something I have planned on addressing. Having one particular woman being a weak healer, by itself, is nothing. In fact, I don't think Vanille's role in FFXIII is very sexist at all. The problem is not one instance, but using women almost exclusively in gender-stereotyped roles -- which is sexist because male characters have traditionally not been so limited.

      To say that a portraying females as more nurturing is sexist because it is due to culture is bs. Women are on average more nurturing than men (to lazy to find the Buss citation).
      This is true, but that doesn't mean that all women are automatically "made" that way and that such a perception is beyond criticism; they are affected by the gender stereotypes and prejudices of their culture. Just because something's a fairly accurate representation of the mean does not mean we must be content with that mean and society as-is.

      Quote Originally Posted by Quinter Wonderland View Post
      Raistlin, will you be discussing the socio-political history of Japan, and how its neighbouring countries - in particular, China - may have effected its development in that regard? Any word on whether you'll be looking into the effects American brutality during the aftermath of WW2 may have had some effect on Japanese gaming development? Do you think if Subotai, Khan's greatest general, had marched east towards Japan, that would have stifled or accelerated the gaming industry's progress?
      I've tentatively renamed the second entry in this series to "Final Fantasy Sexism: smurf it, let's talk about Japanese history and how it developed over the centuries to what it is today, how that history impacted the that culture's view of women, how that culture has impacted the development of the video game industry, and how that industry has impacted the Final Fantasy series, part 2 of 8000."
    1. maybee's Avatar
      maybee -
      * Raises hand *

      Yes I'm another woman who loathes Anita Sarkeesian.

      She's nothing but a con-artist. She asked for a few thousand dollars for a project to study sexism in gaming and she gained enough money to buy a house, a about $ 150,000.

      Where is the project ? Nowhere.

      Where is Anita ? She's disappeared from the inter-webs minus her TEDX talks which are pity parties.

      And even if she's not a con-artist her so called " sexist rants " were epic fail. Her creepy/sexist xmas songs video comes to mind. She says that " All I want for xmas is you " is sexist towards females because, the song is all about wanting a man for Christmas and it would be better to sing a song about family or sharing and then she goes that she wants a Buffy the Vampire set for Christmas.

      Rrrright. So wanting a BF is wrong, but wanting a selfish gift for yourself is not ?

      The girl deserved every trolling and Internet bullying that she got.





    1. Miriel's Avatar
      Miriel -
      The girl deserved every trolling and Internet bullying that she got.
      This is quite possibly one of the most disturbing things I've seen on EoFF. Like, it is legit scary to see this kind of thinking here in our nice little corner of the internet. No, she did not deserve the absolutely heinous misogyny and harassment from thousands, some of which were violent in nature that was directed toward her. She did not deserve DEATH THREATS. And whether or not she'll follow through on her kickstarter project is one thing, the fact that the harassment came as an immediate reaction to the project itself, and not whether she took the money and ran, is the real issue. And you do realize how kickstarter works, right? It's based on DONATION. No one is putting a gun to anyone's head to force you to donate. She got a lot of people to donate. So smurfing what?

      To act like the lack of project updates is the reason behind the misogyny and vitriol directed toward her is deluded and disingenuous. It's bad when it comes from guys, worse still when it comes from other women. Ugh.

      She SHOULD talk about the absolutely insane and over the top sexist reaction she received because that's part of her job description. She's a feminist media critic. She should talk about it, she she bring attention to it, and maybe the discourse will help better the situation so that the next time someone dares to bring up sexism inherent in video games, the reaction won't be quite so idiotic.

      This is going way off topic.

      I think this series by Raistlin is brilliantly written which I think is the first nice thing I've said about Raistlin ever. But I do believe that if a female had posted it, it would be taken in a different, "serious business feminist" sort of way. Which is part of the problem now, isn't it?
    1. maybee's Avatar
      maybee -
      Oh my god.

      /headesk

      When you are attacking a beloved fandom where beloved characters are involved eg- Princess Peach, Lara Croft. You are going to tick people off and make them mad. Anita should of known what she was heading into. Even females dislike her and she was supposed to be "fighting " for their gender.

      I didn't say that she deserved the death threats, so calm down and take your chill pills.

      No her TedX talks are always about "how hard down by she was and how she's defended a ton of trolls and how she's like this big massive hero of the Internet " Which is a load of BS.

      I didn't say that she pushed or forced people into donating. I said that she took a trout load of money from people's pockets promising a project and then vanished showing no sexism in gaming project whatsoever.

      If you want to support somebody who has coughed up $ 150,000 from innocent people who believed that she was going to use their hard earned cash for a project to do with sexism and then didn't, be my guest.

      So smurfing what ?

      So smurfing what ?

      Oh. my. god.

      She created what looks like a false project, lied to people, coughed up money from them and then left. That's smurfing con-artist trout right there.

      Yes it wrong to be violent and overaggressive to somebody and it is disgusting to send somebody a death-threat, but is it better to manipulate people and scam others ? I don't think so.
    1. Quindiana Jones's Avatar
      Quindiana Jones -
      She is a gobtroute, but still, the over-reaction to her gobtroutery was entirely unjustified and inexcuseable.
    1. Freya's Avatar
      Freya -
      She didn't deserve the hate, she didn't. Saying she did is wrong. Miriel is correct about that.

      As Raistlin most likely will point out, there are blatant things that will need to be changed in this industry. She's right in that. Her presentation though and her follow through are not the most ideal. The way she's going about it just doesn't seem like it's the best course of action to me. She walks into a biker bar and yells "harleys suck, change your ways!" Then complains that they beat her ass. Instead of trying to slowly integrate the idea of sexism in video games = bad she decides to jump headfirst in to the shark tank and then lives off of their reaction. What'd you think was gonna happen?

      If you're going to poke the fire like you did, show something from your efforts. That's my beef with her. Maybe just growing up as a female gamer, I know how to react to sexist guys. Heck I get it all the time at my work "do you actually play games or do you just work here?" It's bothersome and needs to change but it's also the culture of gaming. If you want to be involved at all as a female you have to know this atmosphere. We're lucky with the Final Fantasy series, it's not nearly as bad as some others out there. In fact our little corner of the internet has a surprisingly abundance of females. It is a problem but one we already know exists. If you're going into it without knowing that, as a feminist media critic, then you probably haven't done your research.

      Just show some of your project and we'll be better. Not good, but better.
    1. Miriel's Avatar
      Miriel -
      Quote Originally Posted by maybee View Post
      When you are attacking a beloved fandom where beloved characters are involved eg- Princess Peach, Lara Croft. You are going to tick people off and make them mad. Anita should of known what she was heading into. Even females dislike her and she was supposed to be "fighting " for their gender.
      This is the biggest problem here. That you seem to equate critiquing something to be "attacking" it. If you seriously can't see the sexism issues with Princess Peach... I don't even know. She wasn't attacking the gaming industry, just like Raistlin isn't attacking Final Fantasy. You can look at something intelligently and say, "Hey, look at these issues of sex/race/violence/etc within this game" and still like the game.
      I didn't say that she deserved the death threats, so calm down and take your chill pills.
      You said she deserved *all* the bullying she received. The death threats were part of that, which was why I found your comment so disturbing.

      No her TedX talks are always about "how hard down by she was and how she's defended a ton of trolls and how she's like this big massive hero of the Internet " Which is a load of BS.
      Can you clarify, why exactly it's bulltrout? She did handle the abuse remarkably well. And she did get what someone else aptly described as a scorched earth campaign. I don't think I have ever seen anything like it on the internet. It was incredible in it's hatefulness. I think this was a unique opportunity for anybody to take a look at the situation and talk about it.

      She was threatened with death, rape and violence. Do you get that? Do you understand that there was a video game created where you can "beat the bitch up"? That there were attempts to distribute her home address and phone number. And you think that her talking about this kind of abuse is a pity party? I am so glad she is talking about this, shedding light on this ugly dark side of the internet and of the gaming community. How can you view her talk on Tedx and not be disgusted on her behalf? I just can't even comprehend.

      I didn't say that she pushed or forced people into donating. I said that she took a trout load of money from people's pockets promising a project and then vanished showing no sexism in gaming project whatsoever.
      You know this... how? As far as I can see, she has been updating her backers on kickstarter. And from what I understand, she initially wanted to do a few quick videos with the $5000 she originally asked for in the campaign. Just enough for her to cover her rent and expenses while she took on this project. Then, with the huge influx in funds, she revamped the project to be more in depth and with higher production value.

      This takes time. My videographer for my wedding quoted me with a timeline of 8 MONTHS for one video. Anita is make 5+ videos. Her biggest mistake is that she probably took on more than she could handle and wasn't as up front about the progress as she should be. But I'm not mad at that. I miss deadlines at times too. All eyes are on her, do you really think that she would be giving herself more media exposure while simultaneously expecting to run off with the money?

      [B]If you want to support somebody who has coughed up $ 150,000 from innocent people who believed that she was going to use their hard earned cash for a project to do with sexism and then didn't, be my guest.

      She created what looks like a false project, lied to people, coughed up money from them and then left. That's smurfing con-artist trout right there.
      The hate towards her began before her kickstarter campaign even ended. You are lying to yourself if you believe that the money or production delay was the reason why you, or others hated her.

      Her timeline for the video was late fall or early winter. Did you or others wait until early winter to start hating her? Did you wait 6 months and then decide, "hey, it's so terrible that she's late on the project, she is a horrible person and deserves bullying!" I somehow doubt it.

      I don't agree with everything she has to say, but yes, I do support her. I don't even have to like her or her project but I do support her against the rampant sexism that was exhibited in reaction to her.

      Yes it wrong to be violent and overaggressive to somebody and it is disgusting to send somebody a death-threat, but is it better to manipulate people and scam others ? I don't think so.

      She didn't manipulate anyone. And yes, it is worse to send death threats, to make racist remarks, sexist remarks, make video games where you can beat her up, all worse than one girl making a kickstarter campaign unless her campaign was to kill kittens and puppies.
    1. Quindiana Jones's Avatar
      Quindiana Jones -
      You haven't seen any videos yet, Miriel. You never know what might be in them. Maybe mass puppy immolation will be an act of protest?
    1. kotora's Avatar
      kotora -
      ITT: feminist critique on vidya is bad because it's feminist critique.

      And apparently a research project the scope of 150k needs to be finished within 5 measly months or you're a con artist. Wtf people!
    1. Miriel's Avatar
      Miriel -
      If she is in fact killing puppies, I'd be the first to line up with pitchforks.

      This is the comment she made in September in regards to another attack on her via 4chan:

      ...the questions you had regarding release dates and extra funding were specifically answered in update #8. Please understand that I get asked the same questions dozens of times and so I try to respond to those questions collectively in my updates (again see update #8). When I have more details ready to share, the backers will be the first to know...

      ...I know it might be hard for you to accept but I'm doing this project out of love for gaming as a medium and a strong desire to see games and the industry realize their amazing potential. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to work, these video games aren't going to play themselves.
      So, yeah. Totally just taking the money and running, right? Right?

      Sorry about derailing the thread. :o But specifically when I see women who can't stand in solidarity with another woman in the face of such horrid misogyny, it actually makes me really sad. I realize it's holding women to a higher standard than men, but it makes me want to sit down with you and plead, please please please don't be that kind of girl. You don't have to agree with her, but at least support her as another female who did not and continues not to deserve the horrible sexist attacks aimed at her. I believe that there is sexism in gaming, but even if you don't, the reaction to Anita pointing out sexism in gaming unequivocally proves sexism within the gaming community.
    1. Quindiana Jones's Avatar
      Quindiana Jones -
      What if they were misogynistic puppies?
    1. Dr. rydrum2112's Avatar
      Dr. rydrum2112 -
      this isn't derailing the thread. The whole idea of these threads is to get into topics like this, who cares if it is a slight deviation from the exact thread starter?
    1. Del Murder's Avatar
      Del Murder -
      Good article. I look forward to the exploration of the specific games.
    1. Raistlin's Avatar
      Raistlin -
      I have not kept updated with the Sarkeesian case. I know the general story and the backlash against her. For the sake of argument, I'll accept maybee's accusation that she's a lying, douchebag scam artist.

      In no way, shape, or form, does that adequately address the vicious attacks against her, which started coming her way even before any funding controversy, just in response to her campaign (from what I heard; again, I have not been following closely and may not have the most accurate info). You can disagree with someone's argument without resorting to harassment, and the harassment she started facing was clearly and obviously not only a emotional response from a still largely patriarchal culture, but a response to the arguer's (Sarkeesian's) sex. I want to address the xkcd comic I posted in this article: when a woman does something, her entire sex is judged, not just her. Based on these sexist prejudices, it's easy to dismiss a woman's complaint about sexism as just another "feminazi." And regardless of the circumstances, a woman's sexuality is almost always made relevant by men. How often have you glanced at the comments of some article that has a picture of a woman in it -- say, a female scientists in a lab coat -- and saw a variety of discussion regarding who would and would not "hit that"? Boy, if you think video games are sexist, they have nothing on the internet.

      I'm starting to ramble a bit here, but I think it's clear that she would have been dealt with entirely differently presenting the same argument under the same circumstances if she was a man. And that is a problem, above and beyond the substance of her argument.

      Quote Originally Posted by maybee View Post
      When you are attacking a beloved fandom where beloved characters are involved eg- Princess Peach, Lara Croft. You are going to tick people off and make them mad. Anita should of known what she was heading into.
      I uh... really? Yes, maybe she should have known teenage, predominately male gamers are immature assholes who will willingly threaten and harass women they don't like. That in no way excuses their conduct.

      And so because I'm criticizing Tifa Lockhart, and drawing a comparison to Lara Croft in that context, does that mean I can expect a severe backlash as well?

      Quote Originally Posted by Miriel View Post
      You are lying to yourself if you believe that the money or production delay was the reason why you, or others hated her.
      This is probably the only thing Miriel's said here that I take serious issue with. I don't see any reason here to attribute a bad motive to maybee personally, and I'm sure they could be some people out there who really do just dislike her for the delay and perceived dishonesty. I do, however, feel comfortable saying that that was not the impetus for the backlash against her.

      For the record, I have yet to see any persuasive evidence that she is actually running off with anyone's money. I think, based on what is available, that that story was largely fabricated based on a disagreement with her message. I don't think people would have jumped so soon to "oh now she's running off with everyone's money" had it been for a project they agree with.
    1. Quindiana Jones's Avatar
      Quindiana Jones -
      smurfyouraistyourastupidpaedoifyoudontlikelaracroftstitsyouaregaysmurfingfaggotgokillyourself
    1. maybee's Avatar
      maybee -
      Quote Originally Posted by Miriel View Post
      If you seriously can't see the sexism issues with Princess Peach... I don't even know.
      Do you realize that Peach is one of the most powerful fighters within Brawl right ? Peach is a old character made when gaming was still really new, but Nintendo are starting to improve her- even giving her, her own game as the hero and saving the men instead of the other way around. They are starting to take the right step forward.

      Quote Originally Posted by Miriel View Post
      She wasn't attacking the gaming industry, just like Raistlin isn't attacking Final Fantasy. You can look at something intelligently and say, "Hey, look at these issues of sex/race/violence/etc within this game" and still like the game.
      I didn't say that she was. I said that she was attacking people's beloved favourite characters, which pisses people off.

      Quote Originally Posted by Miriel View Post
      You said she deserved *all* the bullying she received. The death threats were part of that, which was why I found your comment so disturbing.
      There's a difference between bullying and being a right disturbing creep. Bullying/ Death threats are totally different.

      Well I found your comment insulting, judgemental, hurtful and rude saying that I was so disturbing and that I was disturbing the peace within these lovely forums.

      Quote Originally Posted by Miriel View Post
      Can you clarify, why exactly it's bulltrout? She did handle the abuse remarkably well. And she did get what someone else aptly described as a scorched earth campaign. I don't think I have ever seen anything like it on the internet. It was incredible in it's hatefulness. I think this was a unique opportunity for anybody to take a look at the situation and talk about it.
      Because she went on to 4chan and trolled the boards. She wanted some of the trouble so she could use the trolling in her favour. She actually downright trolled the boards which are infamous for trolling, so she could play the victim card and she's pulled it off well. When you go and poke the wasp's nest on purpose then it's hard for some people to have respect for you.

      Quote Originally Posted by Miriel View Post
      She was threatened with death, rape and violence. Do you get that?
      Again bullying/ being a disgusting creep = totally different.

      Bullying = being a assface/ troll.

      Quote Originally Posted by Miriel View Post
      Do you understand that there was a video game created where you can "beat the bitch up"?
      Yes I do and with the hate and anger she caused I'm not surprised.

      Quote Originally Posted by Miriel View Post
      That there were attempts to distribute her home address and phone number. And you think that her talking about this kind of abuse is a pity party?
      The way she has tricked people into giving her cash- enough to buy a house, the way she trolled 4chan so she'll grab more haters and more attention towards her being attacked, says yeah. Pity Party to the max.

      Quote Originally Posted by Miriel View Post
      I am so glad she is talking about this, shedding light on this ugly dark side of the internet and of the gaming community. How can you view her talk on Tedx and not be disgusted on her behalf? I just can't even comprehend.
      You do realize that tons and tons of people get abused and bullied and teased and even commit suicide because of net bullying and trolling each day right ? These people are innocent and have done nothing wrong. It's really sad and tragic, and I have been bullied online alot. This girl however went looking for trouble on 4chan.

      Quote Originally Posted by Miriel View Post
      You know this... how?
      Because it's been about seven months now. It's been ages and nothing.

      Quote Originally Posted by Miriel View Post
      This takes time. My videographer for my wedding quoted me with a timeline of 8 MONTHS for one video. Anita is make 5+ videos. Her biggest mistake is that she probably took on more than she could handle and wasn't as up front about the progress as she should be. But I'm not mad at that. I miss deadlines at times too. All eyes are on her, do you really think that she would be giving herself more media exposure while simultaneously expecting to run off with the money?
      Yeah but have much money did you have ? Assuming that you didn't have the cash that she has right now. And she's meant to be this girl that has been gaming since she was ten. You'll think that her knowledge would help things go faster. It just feels like a huge fib.

      Quote Originally Posted by Miriel View Post
      The hate towards her began before her kickstarter campaign even ended. You are lying to yourself if you believe that the money or production delay was the reason why you, or others hated her.
      No people dislike her for many, many different reasons. The reasons why I dislike her is because her project seems fishy and she's so sexist towards males in her videos. So it's okay to say that a love song if sang by a male makes him a stalker ? Saying that male gamers are 30 years old and living in their male basements ?

      Double standards.
      Quote Originally Posted by Miriel View Post
      Her timeline for the video was late fall or early winter. Did you or others wait until early winter to start hating her? Did you wait 6 months and then decide, "hey, it's so terrible that she's late on the project, she is a horrible person and deserves bullying!" I somehow doubt it.
      No. Again there is different reasons why both males AND females like myself can't stand her. Yes those who said the rape comments and death threats are low, going too far and disgusting. But if somebody trolls her and bullies her ( and I mean bullying as in not the death threats included ) I'm not going to feel sorry for the girl.

      Quote Originally Posted by Miriel View Post
      She didn't manipulate anyone. .
      You believe that she hasn't manipulated anybody, but I believe that she has manipulated tons and not just with the sexism in video gaming project.
    1. maybee's Avatar
      maybee -
      Quote Originally Posted by kotora View Post
      And apparently a research project the scope of 150k needs to be finished within 5 measly months or you're a con artist. Wtf people!


      It's been seven months not five.

      Those who are mad with me, please watch this video.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2sNUhskwlI
    1. Quindiana Jones's Avatar
      Quindiana Jones -
      I can understand focussing the topic of a discussion when you don't have access to a large amount of money. So her original Tropes vs Women idea seemed fine to me with her limited resources. She was just pointing out one thing at a time. I will be disappointed and smurfing pissed if, now that she has considerable funds, she doesn't make a full Tropes vs series, regarding all/most of the stereotypes surrounding gaming and other mediums. Media. Bloody Latin. Hell, even better would be if she spent the minimum amount of money on the series and instead put the money to a more practical use. Discussion is an excellent place to start something, but she's well passed that now. It's already been started, even without the series, so the money she's raised could be put to a much better use. Maybe that's just me; I prefer the idea of saving one person than publicising the struggles of one hundred.

      Having said that, she constantly gives off the vibe - by her words and actions and general demeanour - that she only started the project in the first place because "feminism is popular" and "gaming is popular" so combining the two is the fast track to fame. I can't stand people like that, despite the fact that I think the project is a good idea.

      That video was quite silly. The guy would drive sensibly towards an excellent point, then veer off into the bushes of irrelevance before he reached the... uh, the T-junction of reason.
    1. Miriel's Avatar
      Miriel -
      You know, I am so so tempted to just let this go. Really. Despite whatever you might think maybee, I'm not trying to be "rude" in my responses to you. I literally look at your posts and feel exhausted. The sheer weight of the internalized sexism is too much some times. It just makes me weary and disappointed.

      But I'll give this one more go, on the off chance that you might be able to see a different perspective on this.

      Quote Originally Posted by maybee View Post
      Do you realize that Peach is one of the most powerful fighters within Brawl right ? Peach is a old character made when gaming was still really new, but Nintendo are starting to improve her- even giving her, her own game as the hero and saving the men instead of the other way around. They are starting to take the right step forward.
      You are absolutely right that Nintendo has been improving Princess Peach. But why? Why are they improving her? Do you think the change is happening in a vacuum? No, it's because people spoke out about disliking how much of a damsel in distress she was all the time. It's because they realized that maybe people would enjoy having a female character who is more than a trophy given to the male protagonist as a prize. This is what it means to critically analyze sexism in video games. To look at the issues, history, foundation and then see where there can be improvements. And in this case, Nintendo is making improvements. But that doesn't mean that they can't make more improvements or that it's somehow wrong to look at the evolution of Princess Peach and see the issues of sexism within it.

      I didn't say that she was. I said that she was attacking people's beloved favourite characters, which pisses people off.
      But, that's exactly what you did say. And what you're continuing to say. I have to state it again, she is not "attacking" anything. She is critiquing it. You have to understand the difference.

      There's a difference between bullying and being a right disturbing creep. Bullying/ Death threats are totally different.
      Definition of bullying via Wiki: Bullying is the use of force or coercion to abuse or intimidate others. The behavior can be habitual and involve an imbalance of social or physical power. It can include verbal harassment or threat, physical assault or coercion and may be directed repeatedly towards particular victims, perhaps on grounds of race, religion, gender, sexuality, or ability.

      Bullying consists of three basic types of abuse – emotional, verbal, and physical. It typically involves subtle methods of coercion such as intimidation.


      Threats of death, rape, and violence are all part of bullying. I'm really surprised that you're trying to separate the most heinous aspects of the abuse thrown at Anita as not being bullying.

      Quote Originally Posted by Miriel View Post
      Do you understand that there was a video game created where you can "beat the bitch up"?
      Yes I do and with the hate and anger she caused I'm not surprised.
      You're not surprised. Ok. Does that mean you're ok with it? Or you're surprised but still think it's totally and completely messed up and disgusting? I hope it's the latter. But really, this one comment made me just sit and blank out for a bit because I can't comprehend any woman (or man for that matter) who would see something like that and their response is just that it doesn't surprise them.

      I don't believe you're actually looking at the real issue here. Which I think is, why did it make so many people so angry that she would want to analyze sexism in video games. Is it because people don't believe there is sexism in video games? Is it because it was a woman who asked the question? Is it because she asked it in the wrong way? And if it's any of these things, why was the reaction SO strong? Why didn't people just say, "You suck and I won't donate or watch your videos" but instead harass her, try to hack into her personal accounts, get her kickstarter shut down, put her face on pornographic images. Why was the reaction so harsh?

      If you believe Anita was a scammer, then forget about her. Go back to the original question, do video games have sexist representations of women? If yes, what are those representations, how does it manifest itself, what can be done about it, should anything be done about it? If no, why do you believe there isn't any sexism? Why do you think other people believe that there are sexist elements? Do you think there shouldn't be a push toward more fully developed and less stereotypical female roles in video games? What do you think of games that try and innovate new roles for women? Is that a bad thing? Were things fine as they were?

      These are the questions I believe you're avoiding.

      You do realize that tons and tons of people get abused and bullied and teased and even commit suicide because of net bullying and trolling each day right ? These people are innocent and have done nothing wrong. It's really sad and tragic, and I have been bullied online alot. This girl however went looking for trouble on 4chan.
      Could you please provide links to this? I don't believe I've heard anywhere that she went trolling on 4chan. The best I could find after a few minutes of googling was that someone posted her videos onto 4chan and some people think it might have been her posting?

      Because it's been about seven months now. It's been ages and nothing.
      Except that she has been updating her backers on Kickstarter. Are you one of the backers? Are you upset that the money you donated doesn't seem to be resulting in a product? Or if you're not a backer, do you know a backer who is upset? Or are all the people who are upset people who DIDN'T actually donate money?

      No people dislike her for many, many different reasons. The reasons why I dislike her is because her project seems fishy and she's so sexist towards males in her videos. So it's okay to say that a love song if sang by a male makes him a stalker ? Saying that male gamers are 30 years old and living in their male basements ?
      So you have less of a problem with the huuuuge amount of sexism toward her, than the small amount of sexism from Anita toward males? Don't want to put words in your mouth, but just from your posts, this is the conclusion I'm drawing. But if you disagree with her actual comments and beliefs, that's your opinion. And like I said before, I don't agree with everything she says. Some times when you're an activist in whatever industry, you start seeing instances of sexism/racism/etc everywhere. But I would hope that you would be able to differentiate between the legitimate criticisms she has (and many of her points ARE legitimate) and the ones that you don't think are accurate or correct or fair.

      You believe that she hasn't manipulated anybody, but I believe that she has manipulated tons and not just with the sexism in video gaming project.
      Again, I'd like like to point out that I have yet to see an actual kickstarter backer who supported her in the beginning (and not just a troll who donated to kickstater just to get access to the private backers information) who is speaking out about feeling manipulated or tricked into donating money.

      And that's it. I'm not doing any more back and forth about Anita. I would just say that I hope people are able to look at the Anita situation and clearly see the real issues of sexism that the whole thing illustrated without resorting to excuses about why or how she deserved what happened.
    1. maybee's Avatar
      maybee -
      Quote Originally Posted by Miriel View Post
      You know, I am so so tempted to just let this go. Really. Despite whatever you might think maybee, I'm not trying to be "rude" in my responses to you.
      Well I feel very very hurt by what you've said. I've only just started posting on these forums and getting to know the community and the members here and all of a sudden I'm this horrible, ugly person who is disturbing the peace and these forums.

      When I said bullying. I didn't not mean the death threats, the bashing game, the stalking and turning her wiki into pornographic pictures of her. I'm sorry if you thought and assumed that, but I didn't.

      I believe that there is a huge difference between creepy criminal behaviour and just being a total assface. So when I meant "bullying " I didn't mean those things.

      We are derailing somebody else's thread, so if you have any more issues about me please go and PM it. And we can talk about " How I'm destroying everything " there.
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