Final Fantasy XV Dawn Trailer

Did we really need to see a young girl getting attacked by an old man? Really? Urgh.

Originally Posted by Noctis Caelum

It hasn't really been mentioned, but the contrast to this trailer is really kind of fascinating. At the start, we have child-Luna getting abused in what looks like a possible rape scene -- very controversial to say the least

I reaaally doubt that's where that scene was headed haha. This is still a Final Fantasy game. I imagine that flashback is of her home being seized by the imperials when she was young. Or was she born into that society? Don't think that's been clarified yet.

I enjoyed the trailer, honestly I don't want them to show too much of the story (game/movie trailers do that far too much these days) so this one focusing more on the serious tone/emotion of the story was great.

Originally Posted by Night Fury

Did we really need to see a young girl getting attacked by an old man? Really? Urgh.

It's almost as if they're trying to alienate their female user base, or something.

Originally Posted by SapientiaXIII

I are female. That thought never even crossed my mind when I saw the scene. Just looked like maybe Luna being kidnapped or maybe an attempted assassination? How do we know that guy was old to begin with? My oh my.

*It's almost as if they're trying to alienate the female user base who are irritated by this sort of thing.

Originally Posted by Ayen

Originally Posted by SapientiaXIII

I are female. That thought never even crossed my mind when I saw the scene. Just looked like maybe Luna being kidnapped or maybe an attempted assassination? How do we know that guy was old to begin with? My oh my.

*It's almost as if they're trying to alienate the female user base who are irritated by this sort of thing.

I'm not irritated by it, but it definitely had a rape-y vibe which isn't exactly what I want out of a Final Fantasy game.

But meh. The whole thing was meh.

Originally Posted by Ayen

Originally Posted by Night Fury

Did we really need to see a young girl getting attacked by an old man? Really? Urgh.

It's almost as if they're trying to alienate their female user base, or something.

It's not that, it's just cliche and troute.

Originally Posted by SapientiaXIII

We don't know the context of the scene at all. Isn't it a little bit too early to be jumping to conclusions? It seems there's always someone offended by something these days, jeez.

This.

As for the rape comment, wtf.

She's being held hostage/kidnapped, as the situation makes it seem she's the daughter of a royal in an occupied city. Makes sense for her to have that in her backstory. Rape implications aren't that far-fetched, but I really doubt that's what they were going for.

I'm also starting to wonder what her relationship with Noctis will be. It looks like his country invaded hers in the past, now hers invades his. Unless I'm mixing up some facts XD

I'm sure most of the women on this board will agree--you just can't possibly understand how, as a woman, tiring it gets to be inundated with countless media that likes to weaken females, especially through rape.

It's especially especially disheartening to see the only confirmed major female (and non playable) character be a victimized. She may very well be STRONG, but she's no doubt dealt with trauma (even if she wasn't raped).

So smurfing tiring.

I don't have a problem with what they showed with Luna in and of itself. Characters and stories without bad things happening to and with them are always boring. This scene depends on a wider context and context is what is important here. If Luna is a victim, if she is pushed around and doesn't stand up for herself, if she doesn't grow in any meaningful way or have any successes or triumphs and depends on Noctis and da boyz to save the day then yeah smurf that noise.

Something that is often overlooked in these debates is that there is a difference between depicting sensitive topics like racism, sexism and so on and endorsing them. This situation reminds me of the controversy over the cover of Far Cry 4. It depicted a man in a pink suit expressing dominance over someone. The tumblr crowd was in uproar. How dare they show this white man enslaving an ethnic minority - is this the sort of thing you will be doing in the game?! As it turned out, the man was also of that minority and a villain, not the playable character.

With that said, I do want to ask "Why choose that for your brief trailer?" I said context was key and Square-Enix have provided very little information on the character of Luna. I can't really blame people for being upset by seeing difficult images without context, which is what Square should provide if they want to depict sensitive subjects like that in a responsible way.

Originally Posted by Jinx

I'm sure most of the women on this board will agree--you just can't possibly understand how, as a woman, tiring it gets to be inundated with countless media that likes to weaken females, especially through rape.

It's especially especially disheartening to see the only confirmed major female (and non playable) character be a victimized. She may very well be STRONG, but she's no doubt dealt with trauma (even if she wasn't raped).

So smurfing tiring.

Reminds me of Crystal Dynamics with the new Lara Croft. Gotta have people try to rape her! That's the only way women can become strong, apparently. It's why I preferred Keeley Hawes' Lara - she was just badass because she felt like it. "I'm rich, let's go find ancient artefacts because why not?"

Maybe it's just because everyone is trying to lean towards 'gritty realism' and they see attempted rape as 'realistic'. ...That's one of the more depressing possibilities I've considered in a while.

Originally Posted by Fynn

I'm not saying THAT was hate It wasn't directed at anyone in particular here. Its just that the Internet is very angry with the trailer and so many people are getting so personal over this game taking so long and being underwhelmed by the trailer.

People aren't mad at the trailer for the subject matter inside of it. I doubt many people even grasp the depth to look inside of what was shown and question what they're seeing and why they're seeing it.

All they care about is how a dad hug with his child lasted for over a minute, and there was no release date at the end, even though there was a pre-order prompt. In the internet's case, that's an epic fail. But, this is what happens when the internet is impatient, and frankly, 90% stupid.

I'd much rather Square take their time with this game instead of rush it just to get it out to appease people, only to turn it into the next Assassin's Creed Unity. I can't be the only one that wants this game to be good. And the most important thing is not releasing it in a timely matter to appease you. The most important thing is to release it when it's good and ready.

Originally Posted by Jinx

I'm sure most of the women on this board will agree--you just can't possibly understand how, as a woman, tiring it gets to be inundated with countless media that likes to weaken females, especially through rape.

It's especially especially disheartening to see the only confirmed major female (and non playable) character be a victimized. She may very well be STRONG, but she's no doubt dealt with trauma (even if she wasn't raped).

So smurfing tiring.

It is tiring. But I don't get why the lack of female playable character is such a big deal. FFX-2 was an estrogen frenzy. Where was the talk of playable male characters? Nobody really gave a crap. But fast forward over ten years later, and everybody makes a fuss because the lack of boobs makes the game less appealing.

And I find it kind of disheartening that I HAVE to clarify that not everybody thinks that way, but the majority of people DO. Sex sells, and the best way to do that is to have attractive females in your games. It's why practically every game does it. And I do kind of give SE SOME credit for going against that grain with XV.

Not that I'm saying I wouldn't mind more female characters. But I'm not one of those people that thinks it's a crime that there aren't any. It's not something I consider important for a game. The important element to a game is its story. And if someone needs more playable females in the story for it to be good, well, I think they need to re-examine their priorities in what they find a story 'good'.

I feel like I've explained in more than one FFXV thread why a game with no female characters doesn't appeal to me. I'm not going to justify it again. Go read one of the other threads for that.

I do, however, take offense at being told that I need to re-examine why I find a story 'good', especially given that I never criticized the story, only that I find a game with no playable female characters and only one major female NPC to not be appealing to my personal tastes. And what is 'good' is subjective in that it usually revolves around the consumer to connect with the story. Why or how they connect to the story isn't up to you to decide.

Originally Posted by Noctis Caelum

It is tiring. But I don't get why the lack of female playable character is such a big deal. FFX-2 was an estrogen frenzy. Where was the talk of playable male characters? Nobody really gave a crap. But fast forward over ten years later, and everybody makes a fuss because the lack of boobs makes the game less appealing.

And I find it kind of disheartening that I HAVE to clarify that not everybody thinks that way, but the majority of people DO. Sex sells, and the best way to do that is to have attractive females in your games. It's why practically every game does it. And I do kind of give SE SOME credit for going against that grain with XV.

Not that I'm saying I wouldn't mind more female characters. But I'm not one of those people that thinks it's a crime that there aren't any. It's not something I consider important for a game. The important element to a game is its story. And if someone needs more playable females in the story for it to be good, well, I think they need to re-examine their priorities in what they find a story 'good'.

The reason why no one probably gave a trout when it came to X-2 is because there were, and are, plenty of games with male leads that the boys can go and play. Whereas, on the reverse, women have less options than men in their games.

I find it amusing you're giving FFXV kudos for going against the "sex sales" grain when there's a certain mechanic with her tits hanging out in the very same game.

Originally Posted by Fynn

She's being held hostage/kidnapped, as the situation makes it seem she's the daughter of a royal in an occupied city. Makes sense for her to have that in her backstory. Rape implications aren't that far-fetched, but I really doubt that's what they were going for.

I'm also starting to wonder what her relationship with Noctis will be. It looks like his country invaded hers in the past, now hers invades his. Unless I'm mixing up some facts XD

Why do we need ANOTHER Princess being kidnapped though? I'm smurfing tired of princesses being kidnapped and taken hostage. And no, a few times in other media where it is not the case does not make it okay, and does not mean that I can't be frustrated.

Also, FFX-2 being an 'estrogen fest' is a good point - but they did add male characters in the HD remaster that can come into the party - and there were several male characters pivotal to the story that you interacted with a lot. Also, every other FF game has had many male characters - most of the time them being the 'main character' so to speak.

Sex sells, and the best way to do that is to have attractive females in your games. It's why practically every game does it. And I do kind of give SE SOME credit for going against that grain with XV.

Are you serious?

Originally Posted by Night Fury

Also, every other FF game has been male-centric.

Well, you could argue FFXII was centered around Ashe, and FFVI is centered in large part by Terra and Celes. The FFXIII trilogy is centered around Lightning and Serah and their bond of sisterhood. Though to be honest, they are more exceptions to the rule than the norm.

I changed the wording of my post. Still, a few like those mentioned does not change the series history. Yes, they're being a lot more female inclusive in their later titles as you mentioned - but then, I mean, Cidney.

Originally Posted by Night Fury

I changed the wording of my post. Still, a few like those mentioned does not change the series history. Yes, they're being a lot more female inclusive in their later titles as you mentioned - but then, I mean, Cidney.

I do agree with you Fury; I actually find it annoying when men are the main characters for the very sake of filling that quota. Vaan for example really should not have been the main character. And I really don't need to be reminded of Cidney.

Vaan was never intended to be the main character, Formy

And I see your point, Night, about the kidnapped princesses and all that. And while I'll agree it's overdone, there's two reasons why I like it here. One, it's in the backstory, fifteen years prior, and it seems like XV may have the guts to actually explore it psychologically, and two - so far FFXV has shown us a lot of throwbacks to past FFs, paying homage and deconstructing the series formula - I'm eager to see what they'll do with the Princess archetype.

All things considered, though, we're all still making wild guesses here. I just can't wait for the game to come out so that I can play it and we can actually finally discuss the story for what it is rather than what we assume it to be.

I don't know what else you're supposed to do with a vague trailer but have wild speculations.