Game of Thrones: House of the Dragon!

[Lonely Paper Star]

All these gif responses. What is this, Tumblr?

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5999261952/hF9814035/

[McLovin']

Hodor hodor hodor. Hodor? Hodor! Hodor hodor hodor. Hodor, hodor hodor hodor hodor hodor hodor hodor, hodor hodor; hodor hodor hodor hodor. Hodor hodor hodor? Hodor hodor hodor hodor. Hodor hodor hodor, hodor hodor hodor hodor hodor. Hodor hodor hodor hodor hodor hodor hodor! Hodor.

I feel you.

[Shorty]

http://static.tumblr.com/tcmle7a/Nwam5os3a/gendry2.gif

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http://24.media.tumblr.com/ebf9d439a322ef8dc24b65ee5295981f/tumblr_ml0riaNFVk1rn7prko1_500.gif

[Denmark]

http://static.tumblr.com/tcmle7a/Nwam5os3a/gendry2.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2n0y8JU2K1rngkh2.gif

http://static.tumblr.com/58a178a8fe0f971219eadd31cc38d967/6ruxlha/M9smkp3b2/tumblr_static_lorashappies.gif

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http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxpugyReFY1r6zxl0o1_500.gif

[Shorty]

http://static.tumblr.com/tcmle7a/Nwam5os3a/gendry2.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2n0y8JU2K1rngkh2.gif

http://static.tumblr.com/58a178a8fe0f971219eadd31cc38d967/6ruxlha/M9smkp3b2/tumblr_static_lorashappies.gif

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http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxpugyReFY1r6zxl0o1_500.gif


http://24.media.tumblr.com/e0bd344f0766ef641652702a728f84fe/tumblr_mkkvyrC1Dy1s9nn7wo1_500.gif

[Denmark]

http://static.tumblr.com/tcmle7a/Nwam5os3a/gendry2.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2n0y8JU2K1rngkh2.gif

http://static.tumblr.com/58a178a8fe0f971219eadd31cc38d967/6ruxlha/M9smkp3b2/tumblr_static_lorashappies.gif

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http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxpugyReFY1r6zxl0o1_500.gif


http://24.media.tumblr.com/e0bd344f0766ef641652702a728f84fe/tumblr_mkkvyrC1Dy1s9nn7wo1_500.gif

http://alfa.gifs-planet.com/new2/1746.gif

[Shorty]

http://static.tumblr.com/tcmle7a/Nwam5os3a/gendry2.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2n0y8JU2K1rngkh2.gif

http://static.tumblr.com/58a178a8fe0f971219eadd31cc38d967/6ruxlha/M9smkp3b2/tumblr_static_lorashappies.gif

http://24.media.tumblr.com/ebf9d439a322ef8dc24b65ee5295981f/tumblr_ml0riaNFVk1rn7prko1_500.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxpugyReFY1r6zxl0o1_500.gif


http://24.media.tumblr.com/e0bd344f0766ef641652702a728f84fe/tumblr_mkkvyrC1Dy1s9nn7wo1_500.gif

http://alfa.gifs-planet.com/new2/1746.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/97a263a621f092a430f5c8f67d122971/tumblr_mk12fkdSWw1s378g0o1_500.gif

[Denmark]

http://static.tumblr.com/tcmle7a/Nwam5os3a/gendry2.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2n0y8JU2K1rngkh2.gif

http://static.tumblr.com/58a178a8fe0f971219eadd31cc38d967/6ruxlha/M9smkp3b2/tumblr_static_lorashappies.gif

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http://24.media.tumblr.com/e0bd344f0766ef641652702a728f84fe/tumblr_mkkvyrC1Dy1s9nn7wo1_500.gif

http://alfa.gifs-planet.com/new2/1746.gif

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http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lk7fhwtMhE1qzvolj.gif

[Shorty]

http://static.tumblr.com/tcmle7a/Nwam5os3a/gendry2.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2n0y8JU2K1rngkh2.gif

http://static.tumblr.com/58a178a8fe0f971219eadd31cc38d967/6ruxlha/M9smkp3b2/tumblr_static_lorashappies.gif

http://24.media.tumblr.com/ebf9d439a322ef8dc24b65ee5295981f/tumblr_ml0riaNFVk1rn7prko1_500.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxpugyReFY1r6zxl0o1_500.gif


http://24.media.tumblr.com/e0bd344f0766ef641652702a728f84fe/tumblr_mkkvyrC1Dy1s9nn7wo1_500.gif

http://alfa.gifs-planet.com/new2/1746.gif

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[Freya]

Sorry to interrupt this gif fest but it seems like there will be a sauna scene next episode including Gendry... and Milisandre? Also it's one of hte episodes written by george, i what i heard. So.....

here just have this and get your fangirl squees on for a sauna scene.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/edd618536935ea7bcb1bed222d4d415b/tumblr_ml3cz1geVj1s36yb8o1_500.gif



I found a clip from the preview of it.... :D

http://media.tumblr.com/35147df39ea40207e591ca55e5777b4a/tumblr_inline_ml48ru2u3K1qz4rgp.gif

[Jinx]

I want to make mad, passionate love to Shorty and Denmark atm.

[Shorty]

I want to make mad, passionate love to Shorty and Denmark atm.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/2dc305aeb681ed4366cc7f9bd441e8b0/tumblr_mkujsrizIY1snsme1o1_500.gif

[Raistlin]

http://mlkshk.com/r/PP06

[Lonely Paper Star]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/724dac4c15709f62cbddc85793e123d7/tumblr_ml2sj15qKq1qdmxgqo1_500.jpg

HODOR IS THE BEST

[NorthernChaosGod]

You fucks turned this thread into Tumblr

[Shorty]

You fucks turned this thread into Tumblr

http://media.tumblr.com/52f607505d564e86a1744dc3f25dd953/tumblr_inline_mkm003PF6j1qz4rgp.gif

[XxSephirothxX]

Sorry to interrupt this gif fest but it seems like there will be a sauna scene next episode including Gendry... and Milisandre? Also it's one of hte episodes written by george, i what i heard. So.....


Doesn't he just write one episode per season? Judging by IMDB he wrote episode 7 this season.

[Quindiana Jones]

Her shirt is see-through, and you can see her bra. Why do you ask?

Pretty common here. if they've a decent set they'll head out like this. I'm a huge fan.

42470

Her expression, coupled with her being in a bathroom, make me think that this is another one of Cuch's kidnap victims, forced to wear revealing outfits for him to take pictures of and post on Final Fantasy fansites.

Must say, I approve.

[The Man]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6o298tTXp1qc48ejo1_500.png

[Denmark]

I want to make mad, passionate love to Shorty and Denmark atm.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/2dc305aeb681ed4366cc7f9bd441e8b0/tumblr_mkujsrizIY1snsme1o1_500.gif

http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/smirking/grand/game-of-thrones-smirk-in-happy-smirking-6bb61e3b7bce0931da574d19d1d82c88-1682.gif

[Formalhaut]

http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/smirking/grand/game-of-thrones-smirk-in-happy-smirking-6bb61e3b7bce0931da574d19d1d82c88-1682.gif

That gif borders on creepy.

[Night Fury]

I think Theon might be one of my most disliked characters.

He's such a pube.

[The Man]

He gets better.

[Bunny]

I think Theon might be one of my most disliked characters.

He's such a pube.

Successful character then.

[Lonely Paper Star]

I enjoy seeing Gendry at the top of the thread page.

Also, I just saw this on my Twitter: "Gendry Waters followed you."

LOLLLL

[Shorty]

He gets better.

Does he really? I can't stand him.

[Bunny]

It can safely be said that every character you "do not like" is someone you will eventually like.

Unless you are boring and don't understand character depth.

[Shorty]

What about Joffrey? :|

I greatly disliked Sansa at first, but I'm changing my opinion of her. I started liking Catelyn more after she admitted how horrible she was to Jon.

[Formalhaut]

I greatly disliked Sansa at first, but I'm changing my opinion of her. I started liking Catelyn more after she admitted how horrible she was to Jon.

I've always liked Catelyn. She's an honest character who is aware of her flaw about Jon. The moment with Talisa when she was doing that wheel of the seven was very well played by the actress.

[Lonely Paper Star]

For me, most of the characters I disliked in the beginning end up being people I either pity or end up liking. They also have much better depth in the books to provide you additional feels.

[Agent Proto]

The only character I really hate is Joffrey.

[Formalhaut]

The only character I really hate is Joffrey.

I hate Joffrey.
I loathe Stannis, and I guess I'm not fond of Melisandre.
I can tolerate Tywin. The moments with Arya are my favourite scenes with him. It gives him some humanity.
I either pity or dislike Cersei.
I used to dislike Theon, now I do pity him for the situation he's gotten himself in for.
I'm growing to like Sansa.
I like Arya in principle, but her storyline and childish bravado does irritate me.

[Shorty]

How the hell do you dislike Cersei?! She's amazing! I love Tywin, except for when he was a jerky jerk to Tyrion. And I think Arya has grown up quite a bit since the start of her adventure.

[Bunny]

What about Joffrey? :|

I greatly disliked Sansa at first, but I'm changing my opinion of her. I started liking Catelyn more after she admitted how horrible she was to Jon.

Joffrey is an incredible character to me.

His mother is a conniving woman who thinks she is smarter than she actually is and, as such, thinks she deserves more power and authority than she should actually have.

His father (Robert) never game him the time of day and was an imposing figure in his life through his own history (becoming king the way he did). Joffrey could never impress him because he was seen as nothing more than a dandy.

He was thrust into becoming king without any actual preparation (because his father did not teach him and his mother taught him that everyone is an enemy).

He was completely destined to be a completely atrocious king.

[Formalhaut]

Joffrey is an incredible character to me.

His mother is a conniving woman who thinks she is smarter than she actually is and, as such, thinks she deserves more power and authority than she should actually have.

His father (Robert) never game him the time of day and was an imposing figure in his life through his own history (becoming king the way he did). Joffrey could never impress him because he was seen as nothing more than a dandy.

He was thrust into becoming king without any actual preparation (because his father did not teach him and his mother taught him that everyone is an enemy).

He was completely destined to be a completely atrocious king.

I like Joffrey in terms of the character, and the context he was brought up in. I like that.

Of course, I don't like him​.

[Del Murder]

Yeah, appreciating character depth is not the same as not liking someone who is a complete twat. I think fantasy writers get those confused quite a bit actually.

Well-written characters != Likable characters

[The Man]

Major, major spoilers for season four. Seriously don't click if you haven't read A Storm of Swords through to the end.


http://25.media.tumblr.com/4443c199d690261980db641737d71736/tumblr_ml0308L7oe1r2gpjvo8_250.gif

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(source) (http://quentynmartell.tumblr.com/post/47552098728)

Her reaction here is priceless. Especially if you know what's coming.

Also: craigslist ad (http://quentynmartell.tumblr.com/post/47692493042/olivesaverin-i-cant-decide-what-my-favorite)

I lost it.

[Lonely Paper Star]

10 ‘Game of Thrones’ Ben & Jerry’s Flavors We Would Totally Eat (http://thefw.com/game-of-throne-ben-jerrys/)

Died at the Jon Snow one.

[McLovin']

Huckleberry Hound sounds delish.

[Jowy]

friend of mine showed me this gem last night:

<img src=http://www.jasonocampo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Seattle-as-Westeros.jpeg>

winterfell representin'

[Quindiana Jones]

Step One: Look at map of Westeros.

Step Two: Look at map of Great Britain.

Step Three: Roll eyes.

[Shorty]

10 ‘Game of Thrones’ Ben & Jerry’s Flavors We Would Totally Eat (http://thefw.com/game-of-throne-ben-jerrys/)

Died at the Jon Snow one.

oh my god ahahaha Joffrey's sounds absolutely terrible

[Formalhaut]

10 ‘Game of Thrones’ Ben & Jerry’s Flavors We Would Totally Eat (http://thefw.com/game-of-throne-ben-jerrys/)

Died at the Jon Snow one.

oh my god ahahaha Joffrey's sounds absolutely terrible

I love the "Lannister Twist" one for the incest reference. I laughed hard on that one. I also enjoyed Brienne's Rocky Road and Kissed By Fire.

[Shorty]

Mine would be Sweet Lavender and Green Tea Sorbet.

[Freya]

Things to be taken away from this episode: Pod is amazing in the sack. Theon probably has a concussion. Edmure still fails at everything.

[Quindiana Jones]

:smug:

[Jowy]

i stole this off the internet and the last two minutes of the audio were substituted with some :skull::skull::skull::skull:ty punk rock instead of the dialogue before SPOILERS Y'ALL KNOW WHAT I'M TALKIN' ABOUT NO NEED TO DISCUSS IT!

[Night Fury]

OMG THE ENDING!

[Agent Proto]

i stole this off the internet and the last two minutes of the audio were substituted with some :skull::skull::skull::skull:ty punk rock instead of the dialogue before SPOILERS Y'ALL KNOW WHAT I'M TALKIN' ABOUT NO NEED TO DISCUSS IT!

Dude, I know. the show is trying to troll us.

[Freya]

The faces in this show are showing more emotion than anything else.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/e588a2b7cf829fd10b3b4743172184ce/tumblr_mlaykzTIPb1s5tmjvo2_250.gif
http://25.media.tumblr.com/7b4a512b596009927e23031fb73dccf0/tumblr_mlayderdsG1rzxujso1_500.gif
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http://24.media.tumblr.com/1b20da501e79d8cf5b810eb431fce1c7/tumblr_mlawni6kwH1qcjtemo5_250.gif

[Bolivar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xc20YQOIRY&feature=youtu.be

[Lonely Paper Star]

I felt feelings for Hot Pie's goodbye scene and that wolf bread, as well as Catelyn's talk with Brynden. I could have done without Talisa's random scene with Martyn Lannister, though. I just don't like Talisa. But I saw an interesting video about her being a Lannister spy (http://youtu.be/jsTVnZm9hFg) (it might have book spoilers.. also, turn on the annotations) and thought it'd be cool if it were played out. I'm kind of wary of where they're going with moving Theon's storyline earlier than in the books, but I'll deal. I really love the way they ended the episode, even with the rendition of "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" in the credits.

Also, my favorite Jorah quote made it into the episode. <3

[Jinx]

The death metal didn't start til the credits for me, Jowy.

POD IS NO LONGER PUREI FOR ME. D: (I think he must have a very big spear.)

Also, Littlefinger's voice is like nails on a chalkboard.

[McLovin']

POD! Funniest and most random addition to an episode ever. I laughed so damn hard. The Small Council scene was just glorious. The ending was just....holy smurf.

Also the very beginning!!! hahahaha that was so freakin funny. With no words they all basically said you bring shame and dishonor to us all!!!

[Psychotic]

Pod is a hero forever :greenie:

[Bunny]

The death metal didn't start <acronym title="Today I learned" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-bottom-style: none; cursor: auto; color: rgb(255, 255, 255); background-color: rgb(0, 41, 66); border-top-width: 0px !important; border-right-width: 0px !important; border-left-width: 0px !important; border-top-style: none !important; border-right-style: none !important; border-left-style: none !important;">til</acronym> the credits for me, Jowy.

That style of music is called punk.

This episode was brilliant.

Next episode should be incredible.

wtb more dany

[Jinx]

The death metal didn't start <acronym title="Today I learned" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-bottom-style: none; cursor: auto; color: rgb(255, 255, 255); background-color: rgb(0, 41, 66); border-top-width: 0px !important; border-right-width: 0px !important; border-left-width: 0px !important; border-top-style: none !important; border-right-style: none !important; border-left-style: none !important;">til</acronym> the credits for me, Jowy.

That style of music is called punk.




I really don't even care, Bunny.

[Bunny]

WELL YOU SHOULD

[Night Fury]

I already discussed this in chat but the scenes with Brienne I found really upsetting, I don't know why, perhaps it's because Jaime was talking about it to her earlier in the episode and it became quite a big thing. I do like Brienne a lot more now, and I also really like Jaime.

[Loony BoB]

Surprised the thing at the ending hadn't already happened, to be honest. :p As for Pod, it's clearly his eagerness to please others that saved the cash. Stannis plot got the tiniest bit interesting for about five seconds when he actually got angry at red lady but then in the argument stopped and that was that. Boring.

Really eager for the coming episodes, I just wish the entire series was finished so I could watch them all back to back. D=

[Aulayna]

Yay Dany's finally developing. (may have to revert my set back)

[Jinx]

Yeah, I have to admit, Dany was actually interesting in this episode. Trying to make her feminist when she's one of the most male dependent characters is lame, though.

Also, Stannis is the worst character in the series. He's an ass, he's boring. Why do people like him?

[Rantz]

Everything else is top-notch, basically. If I have any reservations it's when they spread the cheese a bit thickly like with Hot Pie leaving. There are far more interesting things going on with Arya that I'd rather see more of instead of cheesy goodbyes that were added just for the show.

Stannis' storyline is really boring right now, I think, so I'm glad they're only showing a little of it. Granted, the book has a lot of political talk in his storyline at this point, which probably wouldn't translate too well to the screen.

Still though, the show is a blast. Pod's scene is one of my favourite deviation from the books so far.

42568

42567

[Formalhaut]

Also, Stannis is the worst character in the series. He's an ass, he's boring. Why do people like him?

I've heard literally no-one in this thread say they like Stannis. I abhor him.

But I've just watched the latest episode, and I have to say, Podrick has just instantly gone up in my estimations. First the saving of Tyrion in the Blackwater, now this... oh Podrick. His scenes with Bronn and Tyrion are just brilliant. From my recollection, Podrick wasn't even that big a character in the book, so it's nice they gave him this bit of story.

EDIT: I should also add I really appreciate the changes to Jaime's character. He went from smug bastard in Season 1, annoying prisoner bastard in Season 2 and Season 3... but then he appeared to change this episode. He didn't have to tell Brienne about the rape thing, and he certainly didn't have to speak up for her and her status as a Tarth with many sapphires. The fact that he went beyond the call of duty (as her prisoner, he'd be well within his right to just say nothing) and got alot more than he bargained for because of it.

[Shlup]

I didn't realize that [end scene event] was happening this soon. I squealed. Took BJ a second to ask "Did they just fully cut off his hand??" That plot point is one of my favorite moments in character development.

Dany's storyline seems to be moving quickly, finally. Kind of. I hope they don't drag out her acquisition of The Undying out much more--I don't see how they reasonably could.

I was also very pleased with Robb's behavior. Uncle Eddy got told.

[Formalhaut]

Dany's storyline seems to be moving quickly, finally. Kind of. I hope they don't drag out her acquisition of The Undying out much more--I don't see how they reasonably could.

She's becoming alot more independent and fierce too; notice how she openly reprimands both Jorah and Selmy for questioning her.

[McLovin']

I think Pod's really the greater swordsman than Jamie Lanister. :jokey:

[blackmage_nuke]

Hot Pie's leaving was laid on a bit thick but i'll miss him (Even though I didnt really know his name until this ep)

I didnt care for the ending credits.

Loved the whole chair moving scene

[Formalhaut]

Hot Pie's leaving was laid on a bit thick but i'll miss him

It was, but I quite liked this episode as a small nod to the smaller characters. Hot Pie left, Podrick had his time in the spotlight for abit, even Dany's new 'Irri' got some dialogue besides translator.

[blackmage_nuke]

I can only assume the dragons remain loyal to Denerys reguardless of who she "sells" them to. If the Unsullied are truly obedient to thier new master she will have no trouble attacking the now defenseless Astapor and reclaiming her dragon

[Jinx]

I wonder if that was some cheesy bread, Hot Pie's leaving was so cheesy!


Actually, I think he's one of those characters with a weird cult following (like Pod <33333), so I think that's why they gave him a nice fair well.

[Madame Adequate]

Oh man dis ep was amazing. Stannis was Stannis which is great, Thoros is a cheeky bugger which is great, Dany and Jorah and Selmy make the best trio, Pod, Robb having strategic nous, and just everything about it was great except the absence of Bran's group.

Thoughts:

If Dany has 8,000 Unsullied, who exactly is left to protect Astapor when she orders them to seize the city and kill that prick in charge? :greenie:

I was absolutely 100% convinced that guy helping Theon escape was a ruseman but then he rescued him by killing a bunch of guys so.

Holy shit that ending what the actual fuck

And Pod is a hero forever.

[Iceglow]

I know this is perhaps the funniest thing but...

I keep wanting to say to all you people who are only aware of the events as they happen in the TV show;

YOU KNOW NOTHING

It's true you don't. Also, Locky the books are far more traumatizing in the chapters revolving around the events of Jaime and Brienne.

[Del Murder]

Pretty good episode and it moved some plots forward. Not as quickly as I would have liked but I think what I like isn't realistic for this show.

[Jinx]

I personally found the scene with Brienne more traumatic in the show. As detailed and graphic as the books are, her screams were terrifying.

[Iceglow]

Really the divergences from the books regarding Jaime's incarceration, the extent of the Stark push south and the various battles around Riverrun kind of annoy me. It robs some of the pace from the story and makes the Stark threat on the Lannisters appear weaker than it is. In the books the only thing that eventually defeats Robb's forces is the red wedding

[McLovin']

Does Brienne get it worse in the books?

[Iceglow]

Does Brienne get it worse in the books?

Jaime still steps in at the last moment with them but it's described in more graphic detail. I also somehow doubt the TV show will manage to deal with the events about to take place in the books in the same way.

[Lonely Paper Star]

Unrelated to the current discussion, but MTV Geek has been putting out a video series called "Cooking With Thrones," where the host recaps each episode with a special guest of some sort... all while cooking something. In case anyone was interested.

I wanna make lemon cakes.

Ep. 1 - "Valar Dohaeris" - King's Landing Poached Pears with Natalie Dormer (Margaery) (http://geek-news.mtv.com/2013/03/31/cooking-with-thrones-game-of-thrones-recap/)
Ep. 2 - "Dark Wings, Dark Words" - Sansa's Lemon Squares with John Bradley (Samwell) (http://geek-news.mtv.com/2013/04/07/game-of-thrones-john-bradley-cooking-with-thrones/#more-116804)
Ep. 3 - "Walk of Punishment" - Hot Pie's Direwolf Scones with Chelsea Monroe-Cassel (author of official GoT cookbook) (http://geek-news.mtv.com/2013/04/14/game-of-thrones-walk-of-punishment-direwolf-scones/)

[Shlup]

You're being a nerd, Steve.

[Bunny]

Really the divergences from the books regarding Jaime's incarceration, the extent of the Stark push south and the various battles around Riverrun kind of annoy me. It robs some of the pace from the story and makes the Stark threat on the Lannisters appear weaker than it is. In the books the only thing that eventually defeats Robb's forces is the red wedding

You should read the books again, I don't think you quite understood the parts with Robb in them.

[chionos]

Pre-stud Pod scene was just gratuitous. Post-stud Pod scene was great, though.

Great episode, especially the beginning and end.

Loved to see Robb growing up even more, hardening, but also beginning to crack. He's got that look in his eye finally.

I wish...I wish I could, Theon...

Those of you who haven't read the books...I wish...

:foot:


Waiting for this shit is seriously painful.

Also, the ending WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THAT WAY. Wasn't some troll for torrent-thieves.

And I love it. So there. :cuch:




I think Pod's really the greater swordsman than Jamie Lanister. :jokey:

Formy certainly seems to think so. :kiss:
All Up In Those Expectations. ALL UP IN THEM.

[Shlup]

The end was supposed to be what way? With the credit audio overlapping the end of the episode? Because that is not the case.

[Rantz]

The song was supposed to start with the credits, but some copies apparently have them start sooner. Probably a problematic rip rather than a trollface, but still pretty lame. :P

[chionos]

The end was supposed to be what way? With the credit audio overlapping the end of the episode? Because that is not the case.

Oh, not the overlapping. Someone disliked the music and snap-cut at the end even in the good version. Maybe that wasn't in here though, maybe that was another discussion elsewhere.

Actually even in here, there have been people blaming the producers, so...

[Jinx]

The end was supposed to be what way? With the credit audio overlapping the end of the episode? Because that is not the case.

Oh, not the overlapping. Someone disliked the music and snap-cut at the end even in the good version. Maybe that wasn't in here though, maybe that was another discussion elsewhere.

Actually even in here, there have been people blaming the producers, so...

No they haven't? They've definitely been blaming the torrents they downloaded.

[Cuchulainn]

Also, Stannis is the worst character in the series. He's an ass, he's boring. Why do people like him?

I've heard literally no-one in this thread say they like Stannis. I abhor him. .

I fucking love stannis. Best character in the whole books by a country mile.

[Jinx]

Also, Stannis is the worst character in the series. He's an ass, he's boring. Why do people like him?

I've heard literally no-one in this thread say they like Stannis. I abhor him. .

I smurfing love stannis. Best character in the whole books by a country mile.

Why?

[Cuchulainn]

Because he's a medieval Terminator. You don't smurf with Stannis and get away with it. Plus he's got Davos. Plus other reasons I can't get into without fannying about with spoiler tags. But allow me to post what Varys said about him

"There is no creature on earth half so terrifying as a truly just man"


That's Why

[Denmark]

We need details.

Copious details.

[Psychotic]

Also, Stannis is the worst character in the series. He's an ass, he's boring. Why do people like him?

I've heard literally no-one in this thread say they like Stannis. I abhor him. .

I smurfing love stannis. Best character in the whole books by a country mile.You and I disagree on a lot of things my good man, but on this, we agree. Stannis is smurfing amazing and if you don't like him, you don't understand the show/book. Get out of the thread. :colbert:

They will bend the knee or I will destroy them.

Fan-fucking-tastic. He doesn't give a fuck about the Game. The Iron Throne is his by right and fuck anyone that gets in the way of that. He won't negotiate, or plot, or stab you in the back. He will stab you in the front, repeatedly. No retreat, no surrender. Stannis is a hero.

[Quindiana Jones]

Here to add to the Stannis love in face of the dumb-dumb Stannis hate.

Paul said it best. Stannis is a brilliant character because not only does he not play the Game, but he hates the game and actively pursues its destruction. He's pretty much the only character with utterly gigantic testicles.

[chionos]

The end was supposed to be what way? With the credit audio overlapping the end of the episode? Because that is not the case.

Oh, not the overlapping. Someone disliked the music and snap-cut at the end even in the good version. Maybe that wasn't in here though, maybe that was another discussion elsewhere.

Actually even in here, there have been people blaming the producers, so...

No they haven't? They've definitely been blaming the torrents they downloaded.




I didnt care for the ending credits.



i stole this off the internet and the last two minutes of the audio were substituted with some :skull::skull::skull::skull:ty punk rock instead of the dialogue before SPOILERS Y'ALL KNOW WHAT I'M TALKIN' ABOUT NO NEED TO DISCUSS IT!

Dude, I know. the show is trying to troll us.

Just...I wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy, so there.


Stannis is a great character and he gets better, and soon. Although, even in the books his storyline is one of the most frustrating for the way it drags/lacks focus. I love the way he's being portrayed in the show though. And Melisandre is a perfect fire witch, cause she's hot.

I'm with others who are ready for Arya to move along into the rest of her story.

[Night Fury]

Also, Stannis is the worst character in the series. He's an ass, he's boring. Why do people like him?

I've heard literally no-one in this thread say they like Stannis. I abhor him. .

I smurfing love stannis. Best character in the whole books by a country mile.You and I disagree on a lot of things my good man, but on this, we agree. Stannis is smurfing amazing and if you don't like him, you don't understand the show/book. Get out of the thread. :colbert:

They will bend the knee or I will destroy them.

Fan-smurfing-tastic. He doesn't give a smurf about the Game. The Iron Throne is his by right and smurf anyone that gets in the way of that. He won't negotiate, or plot, or stab you in the back. He will stab you in the front, repeatedly. No retreat, no surrender. Stannis is a hero.

Could not have said it better myself. Stannis is the one character I find a bit frightening because of these exact reasons. He's also a bit gorgeous.

[Del Murder]

Maybe in the book he's different, but in the show he seems kind of crazy to me and is totally under the red woman's spell. I mean, if he was actually like how you say it would be better but Melisandre hurts his character by making him too reliant on her and unable to see reason from his own people. By using her, isn't he essentially playing the game he hates so much?

[Rantz]

Stannis is not my favourite character, but he is quite badass and adds some well-needed nuance to the power struggles of Westeros.

[Formalhaut]

but in the show he seems kind of crazy to me and is totally under the red woman's spell. I mean, if he was actually like how you say it would be better but Melisandre hurts his character by making him too reliant on her and unable to see reason from his own people. By using her, isn't he essentially playing the game he hates so much?

After the battle of Blackwater, all he has done since is mope around in Dragonstone feeling sorry for himself, while the Melisandre whispers sweet words into his ear. He sends Ser Davos to the dungeons despite him being his most loyal servant, and in Episode 3 he begs Melisandre to stay on Dragonstone when she proactively decides to go get some king's blood for some spell she wants to conjure.

So far, Stannis is just moping around on Dragonstone. Hope he gets some 'fire' back in him soon! In principle, I should like him. I want to like him. Don't dissapoint me!

[Night Fury]

I do like Davos more than Stannis though because geordie.

[Psychotic]

Melisandre hurts his character by making him too reliant on her and unable to see reason from his own people. By using her, isn't he essentially playing the game he hates so much?Exactly. It's that inner conflict, the two sides represented by Melisandre and Davos, that makes him such a great character. I should say that I find Melisandre and Davos bloody brilliant in their own rights themselves.

[Formalhaut]

DAVOS!!!!! He makes Stannis's storyline watchable at the moment.

[chionos]

Maybe in the book he's different, but in the show he seems kind of crazy to me and is totally under the red woman's spell. I mean, if he was actually like how you say it would be better but Melisandre hurts his character by making him too reliant on her and unable to see reason from his own people. By using her, isn't he essentially playing the game he hates so much?

Actually, Blackwater happens because he doesn't listen to her. He's not as much under her spell as you say he is. And yeah, he's playing the game, but that's the point, he has to play the game even though he hates it. When you're badass, the world doesn't just sit back and leave you alone and let you be badass by yourself.

[Night Fury]

I keep reading his name though and my brain keeps reading DAVROS.

Do not judge me for making this. :colbert:

42575

[Miriel]

The small council scene was my favorite in the whole episode. It was just hilarious and perfect. There were actually a lot of funny moments in this episode. I also really liked how Brutus couldn't do his arrow bit properly. :p

The show is making me conflicted about Jamie. Cause on one hand (ha ha ha), he pushed precious adorable Bran out of a fucking window. Which is totes not cool. But then I really like his interactions with Brienne. And then he's hot. So... what to do?

I have no idea what Stannis is like in the books, but as far as the show is concerned, that is not a man with balls of steel or anything like that. He seems unrealistic, pompous, and overly reliant and blinded by Melisandre. I kinda thought it was funny how he was like, "arggh I'm the king!!" and she was all, "Awww, sure you are honey" *pat pat* and gives him the most pitying look. That was great.

I don't mind Stannis, but he does come across as rather naive. How much of his badassery are you guys basing on the books, versus what is actually being shown on TV?

[chionos]

The small council scene was my favorite in the whole episode. It was just hilarious and perfect. There were actually a lot of funny moments in this episode. I also really liked how Brutus couldn't do his arrow bit properly. :p

The show is making me conflicted about Jamie. Cause on one hand (ha ha ha), he pushed precious adorable Bran out of a smurfing window. Which is totes not cool. But then I really like his interactions with Brienne. And then he's hot. So... what to do?

I have no idea what Stannis is like in the books, but as far as the show is concerned, that is not a man with balls of steel or anything like that. He seems unrealistic, pompous, and overly reliant and blinded by Melisandre. I kinda thought it was funny how he was like, "arggh I'm the king!!" and she was all, "Awww, sure you are honey" *pat pat* and gives him the most pitying look. That was great.

I don't mind Stannis, but he does come across as rather naive. How much of his badassery are you guys basing on the books, versus what is actually being shown on TV?

Well, maybe just a little bit.


Also, yes, the scene with Melisandre was brilliant. But it perfectly proves that he's a badass. No other man in the world could be verbally castrated like that and still stand, and still fight, and still want to bang the hell out of the red bitch.

[Miriel]

Yeah, I'm thinking that you're bringing a lot of the books into the show and kind of transplanting all that background info onto the characters of the TV show. Which is fine. I've always gotten the impression that the show is way more fun for those who have read the books versus those who haven't. There seems to be quite a lot of winks and nods given to book readers which must be nice.

But badass is not how that scene read to a regular viewer.

In that scene, Melisandre had all the power and Stannis came across as a petulant child. I would not be surprised if after that scene he went and sucked on his thumb for awhile.

If you subtract all the info you have on Stannis via the books, does that scene really come across to you as one where this is a singular man with epic badassery??

I would say that Stannis' staunchness, single-mindedness and righteous attitude is interesting and a nice contrast to the other characters. But he doesn't seem savvy enough to be badass. He seems kind of dumb to be honest.

[Formalhaut]

If you subtract all the info you have on Stannis via the books, does that scene really come across to you as one where this is a singular man with epic badassery??

I would say that Stannis' staunchness, single-mindedness and righteous attitude is interesting and a nice contrast to the other characters. But he doesn't seem savvy enough to be badass. He seems kind of dumb to be honest.

Basically, Melisandre wears the trousers in that relationship.

[Del Murder]

I totally agree, and now I have to read on to figure out why people love Stannis so much.

[Loony BoB]

Miriel summed up my thoughts to the letter. Stannis might be cool if you're read the books, but to anyone watching the TV series - without having read the books - his balls are well and truly in the grasp of a (quite unlikeable, for me) redhead.

I'd read the books, but I don't want to spoil the TV series. I'll read the books afterwards, perhaps.

[Psychotic]

You should read the books because you get to be an obnoxious little tit who posts "heeheehee, you wait 'til THIS happens!" and "well, if you read the books maybe you'd understand, heh :smug:"

In other news, man, I can't wait for the part when Stannis grows wings and flies around breathing fire everywhere!

[Quindiana Jones]

I liked his romance with Davos best.

[chionos]

Yeah, I'm thinking that you're bringing a lot of the books into the show and kind of transplanting all that background info onto the characters of the TV show. Which is fine. I've always gotten the impression that the show is way more fun for those who have read the books versus those who haven't. There seems to be quite a lot of winks and nods given to book readers which must be nice.

But badass is not how that scene read to a regular viewer.

In that scene, Melisandre had all the power and Stannis came across as a petulant child. I would not be surprised if after that scene he went and sucked on his thumb for awhile.

If you subtract all the info you have on Stannis via the books, does that scene really come across to you as one where this is a singular man with epic badassery??

I would say that Stannis' staunchness, single-mindedness and righteous attitude is interesting and a nice contrast to the other characters. But he doesn't seem savvy enough to be badass. He seems kind of dumb to be honest.

I freely admit that in the context of this particular scene I allowed my knowledge of the books to inform that full meaning of the show. His look at the end of the scene is that of a defeated man, certainly. So, point conceded.

He's still a badass though.

[Jinx]

I keep reading his name though and my brain keeps reading DAVROS.

Do not judge me for making this. :colbert:

42575

This is the greatest thing ever, and you knew I'd squee. I am uploading this to Facebook. I will credit you. :3


Also, Stannis is lame in the books too. He's not the rightful king--Dany is. He's ineffective and like Miriel said: stupid.

[Rantz]

I agree with what you all are saying about Stannis in the show, yeah. I don't think they really meant to change his character all that much for the show, but with less room for nuances they're focusing on the hold she does have over him, which is still very present in the books, but it's far from the whole picture there. Basically, I think Stannis' character in the show suffers in favour of showing Melisandre's power and influence.

[Psychotic]

Also, Stannis is lame in the books too. He's not the rightful king--Dany is. He's ineffective and like Miriel said: stupid.Majorest of major book spoilers don't smurfing click it for God's sake:

Two words: Aegon Targaryen. And yes I'm aware of the theories that it might not be him but they're just theories for now. Either way, no, the Targaryens are not the rightful rulers anyway. You're beginning to sound like Viserys. Aegon (or whoever he is) would be an amazing king anyway and I hope he gets the Iron Throne.

[Jinx]

Also, Stannis is lame in the books too. He's not the rightful king--Dany is. He's ineffective and like Miriel said: stupid.Majorest of major book spoilers don't smurfing click it for God's sake:

Two words: Aegon Targaryen. And yes I'm aware of the theories that it might not be him but they're just theories for now. Either way, no, the Targaryens are not the rightful rulers anyway. You're beginning to sound like Viserys. Aegon (or whoever he is) would be an amazing king anyway and I hope he gets the Iron Throne.

Yes, I know about that. I was just too lazy to do a book spoiler. Regardless, not Stannis. Fuck him.

YES THE LAND BELONGS TO THE CHILDREN OF THE FOREST

there, happy?

[Psychotic]

I'm not going to be happy until you admit the only reason you "hate" Stannis is because you're jealous of Melisandre and wish it was you he was giving the old in-out-in-out to on the strategy table.

[Jinx]

Stannis is fugly.

So no.

That's the real reason I hate Dany, though. I want Ser Jorah for meself. :(

[Cuchulainn]

The reason Stannis is doingn nothing is simple. The show has taken away a huge storyline he has in the first part of ASoS. The Florent's are not there, there's no kings men and queens men. I WANT THE BASTARD OF NIGHTSONG FOR GOD SAKE. There is no council and no Celigar and moaning and prisons. There's no Edric Storm though I highly suspect the show is merging this characters storyline with that of Shireen's.

His greatness is already there, pre-game of thrones, but he rises even further. There is no one that comes close to him & Davos (the Red Bitch can go smurf).

Also

"Few of the birds Maester Aemon had returned as of yet. One found Stannis, though. One found Dragonstone, and a king who still cared."

^for that alone he's a demi-God

[Jinx]

There's no Edric Storm though I highly suspect the show is merging this characters storyline with that of Shireen's.



I think they're merging it with Gendry's storyline.

[Madame Adequate]

I've never so much as held a copy of the books nevermind read them and it's still pretty fucking clear that Stannis is an utter badman who gives no fucks and takes no shit. If you don't accept this bend the knee, welp, get destroyed tbqh. :shobon:

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

Wait, people think Stannis is cool in the books? Are we reading the same books?

[Cuchulainn]

Wait, people think Stannis is cool in the books? Are we reading the same books?

o nose. you don't like stannis. i'm going to have to completely re-evaluate my opinion of him now.

[NorthernChaosGod]

Stannis is cool. If you disagree, shut up.

Also, fucking Pod. What a beast.

[Del Murder]

Let's be nice here. I know that in GoT there are no rules for conduct but at EoFF we don't tell people to shut up or be destroyed for having a different opinion, even jokingly. 'All those who disagree with me can go [something bad]' is so high school 2002 anyway. :p

[Lonely Paper Star]

I think the good thing about the characters in ASoIaF/GoT is that we don't agree on who is better/cooler/etc than others. :D

[Shlup]

The primary difference between show!Stannis and book!Stannis is the perspective. In the books, Stannis is not a POV character, so what you hear about him is primarily through Davos, who basically idolizes him. He relies and mostly listens to Melissandre, yes, but you don't see in the books that he's infatuated with her or holds any passion for her at all, which is a huge difference in character between the two mediums. You still get Renly and the like badmouthing Stannis, but from Davos' description he's almost like an even harder Ned, and everyone likes Ned.

Stannis was badass during the Battle of the Blackwater in both mediums. Really, though, Stannis is the least important character of that storyline out of the three (Melissandre and Davos being the other two).


The show is making me conflicted about Jamie. Cause on one hand (ha ha ha), he pushed precious adorable Bran out of a fucking window. Which is totes not cool. But then I really like his interactions with Brienne. And then he's hot. So... what to do?
It's a weird sensation to be introduced to a character as a guy who tries to murder a little boy while screwing his own sister, and then loving him just a couple books later. And I do--I loves him.

[Lonely Paper Star]

The show is making me conflicted about Jamie. Cause on one hand (ha ha ha), he pushed precious adorable Bran out of a smurfing window. Which is totes not cool. But then I really like his interactions with Brienne. And then he's hot. So... what to do?
It's a weird sensation to be introduced to a character as a guy who tries to murder a little boy while screwing his own sister, and then loving him just a couple books later. And I do--I loves him.

I love Jaime's character depth and what he's becoming.

I disliked him throughout AGOT/1st season and most of ACOK/2nd season. He throws a kid out the window, smurfs his sister, breaks his knightly vows ("Kingslayer") in Robert's Rebellion, and is punished for those actions (through the loss of his sword hand)... after that, he starts redeeming himself and becomes more morally adept in just a few books.

[Shlup]

I don't know that he started redeeming himself so much as you started learning more about his motivations. We assume for so long that he killed the Mad King because he wanted to be on the winning side, but then it's revealed that Aerys was screaming "Burn them all!" and intended to destroy his own city when faced with his defeat. Yes, he tried to kill Bran, but he truly and faithfully loves Cersei. Sure, he's arrogant about his swordsmanship, but that's because that and his father's wealth are his entire identity--he's dyslexic and grew up feeling dumb. And he's the only Lannister who's nice to Tyrion. And if you don't love him after all that, now there's all these character-revealing scenes with him and Brienne, and the deep character changes that come with losing his sword hand.

The Lannisters are all interesting as hell and I feel various pleasing ways about them.

[Del Murder]

Yeah I'll agree that Stannis was pretty hardcore at Blackwater.

[Jinx]

Was Jaime dyslexic in the books? I thought that was just something the did for the show.

[Shlup]

Yes, he was in the books as well. I think the point was easier to miss in the books since Tywin and Jaime aren't POV characters. (At least not at this point in the story.)

[Loony BoB]

I know you guys aren't being too specific, but please keep in mind that "____ redeems themselves and becomes morally cool" is most definitely a spoiler.

[Madame Adequate]

But it's not a spoiler when it's already happening :p Jaime had little motivation for helping Brienne out of that nastiness this episode (As he figured he could already talk and/or bribe his way out of his own fix regardless of what happened to her), except that he's gained some affection/respect for her and doesn't want to see her suffering or killed. But then Jaime has always been a very complicated person, for the reasons Shlup outlines. I've always felt bad for him because he ran through the Mad King and put an end to the Civil War, putting Robert on the throne and possibly saving King's Landing itself, and the winning side despise and mistrust him precisely because of that.

I think one of this show's strongest aspects is that it does an amazing job of making you feel sympathy for characters who you never thought you'd sympathize with. After Theon's bullshit last season I didn't think I'd ever give one crap about him again, but then episode 2 changed that idea in a fucking hurry. One of the first things The Hound does in the series is kill a kid just because he's ordered to, but he (along with Tyrion) is just about the only person in King's Landing who cares in any way about Sansa and although he's very constrained by what he can do for her, he does that small amount with great dedication. I wouldn't be all that surprised if even Joffrey and Craster elicit some sympathy at some point.

[Quindiana Jones]

I dunno. I'm pretty sure Joff and Craster are fucked, karmically speaking.

[Loony BoB]

But it's not a spoiler when it's already happening :p
Sometimes characters have more than one change throughout a book series, how am I to know if this was just a momentary lapse? When it comes to redeeming himself, he's done one good thing after a lot more bad things. I don't want to have to stop reading this thread to avoid knowledge of which direction a character is going to go in over the next few seasons.

[Jinx]

But it's not a spoiler when it's already happening :p
Sometimes characters have more than one change throughout a book series, how am I to know if this was just a momentary lapse? When it comes to redeeming himself, he's done one good thing after a lot more bad things. I don't want to have to stop reading this thread to avoid knowledge of which direction a character is going to go in over the next few seasons.

Then read the books.

[Del Murder]

If a character sneezes in a book he hasn't read, BoB considers that a spoiler.

[Denmark]

spoilers: Sam I Am convinces his friend to eat green eggs and ham and he likes it

(moral: annoy people enough and they'll do whatever you want)

[Quindiana Jones]

Actual moral: Dr. Seuss is a genius.

[Shlup]

But it's not a spoiler when it's already happening :p
Sometimes characters have more than one change throughout a book series, how am I to know if this was just a momentary lapse? When it comes to redeeming himself, he's done one good thing after a lot more bad things. I don't want to have to stop reading this thread to avoid knowledge of which direction a character is going to go in over the next few seasons.

We're talking about what's happening in the series right now. We're marking even ridiculously minor spoilers. If you already know you're a super spoiler nazi to the point where you don't even want to read anything that you might be able to infer a spoiler from, maybe you should avoid discussing things with people on the internet, fatty.

[Loony BoB]

I like discussing the TV series, though. :( I gotta get a list of people who haven't read the books so I can just skip everyone else's posts...

[blackmage_nuke]

I like discussing the TV series, though. :( I gotta get a list of people who haven't read the books so I can just skip everyone else's posts...
You could segregate them with custom titles so we can all enjoy the benefits of your research

[Loony BoB]

Research, eh? Sounds like a job for statistics.

[blackmage_nuke]

Or stick a non-anonymous poll in this thread and anyone who doesnt answer is a doodoo head

[Pike]

I came into this thread for the very first time to ask if there were book spoilers in here but I guess this is a frequently recurring debate?

[Loony BoB]

There are book spoilers behind the spoiler tags for the most part, but some things that some people like myself would consider spoilers such as character direction (eg. ____ will start getting more badass, ____ will redeem themselves"). Non-specific spoilers, if you like. I'm personally a big fan of not having any idea about what will happen next.

[Pike]

Me too actually.

/me slowly backs out of thread

[Quindiana Jones]

Why not make this the TV thread and make a separate book thread?

[Formalhaut]

Why not make this the TV thread and make a separate book thread?

It would certainly clear everything up.

[Jinx]

Why not make this the TV thread and make a separate book thread?

We have one. But it's hard to discuss the two exclusively.

[Rantz]

Varys develops gills and scales, Jamie Lannister starts wearing fedoras and King Robert comes back to life as an Other.

[Freya]

This IS the tv thread. I made it years ago in hopes for the show. Filthy book readers keep spoiling. Heck it even has (S3) for season 3 in the title. Let them enjoy what we already know as they get it guys without spoiling it for them. It's not hard.

[Formalhaut]

Varys develops gills and scales, Jamie Lannister starts wearing fedoras and King Robert comes back to life as an Other.

Actually, Varys being some sort of mermen or something (basically, not human) is an actual theory. :p

[Lonely Paper Star]

... In other news, here is a list of The 14 Best Hodor Quotes From "Game Of Thrones" (http://www.buzzfeed.com/louispeitzman/the-14-best-hodor-quotes-from-game-of-thrones).

[Night Fury]

... In other news, there here is a list of The 14 Best Hodor Quotes From "Game Of Thrones" (http://www.buzzfeed.com/louispeitzman/the-14-best-hodor-quotes-from-game-of-thrones).

Emmy worthy.

[Jinx]

... In other news, there here is a list of The 14 Best Hodor Quotes From "Game Of Thrones" (http://www.buzzfeed.com/louispeitzman/the-14-best-hodor-quotes-from-game-of-thrones).

Yes.

[Bunny]

Why not make this the TV thread and make a separate book thread?

Because then BoB would have to actively avoid a particular thread because of the possibly that he would be spoiled.

[Loony BoB]

I'm fine with seperate threads. Of course, I'm fine with just using 'book spoiler' tags in this thread, too. :p

[The Man]

The problem with doing that is that BoB considers things spoilers that most people wouldn't even blink at, such as that a character who has already clearly started his redemption continues along that path. I mean, when I said that mentioning that Magus was a playable character in Chrono Trigger could spoil someone, people laughed at me. I think this goes quite a bit further than that.

Also: Hodor!

[Shlup]

There are book spoilers behind the spoiler tags for the most part, but some things that some people like myself would consider spoilers such as character direction (eg. ____ will start getting more badass, ____ will redeem themselves"). Non-specific spoilers, if you like. I'm personally a big fan of not having any idea about what will happen next.

I haven't seen anyone say anything like that aside from referencing current events in the show. Every time I've seen someone leave even vague spoilers unmarked, I've marked them. Quit scaring people off, you slut!

[The Man]

BoB truly is a slut.

[Del Murder]

Hey, BoB doesn't become a slut until Book 4. Stop spoiling me!

[Loony BoB]

There are book spoilers behind the spoiler tags for the most part, but some things that some people like myself would consider spoilers such as character direction (eg. ____ will start getting more badass, ____ will redeem themselves"). Non-specific spoilers, if you like. I'm personally a big fan of not having any idea about what will happen next.

I haven't seen anyone say anything like that aside from referencing current events in the show. Every time I've seen someone leave even vague spoilers unmarked, I've marked them. Quit scaring people off, you slut!

after that, he starts redeeming himself and becomes more morally adept in just a few books.
And as Pike clearly displays, it's not just me that feels this way... just sayin'.

[Pike]

Someone who shall remain nameless told me to come back to this thread.

So uh how about that Joffrey? He sure is a jerkbutt.

[Loony BoB]

I look forward to karma kicking his arse, but at the same time I can't help but feel I'll miss him if he does kick the bucket. He's just so good at being a jerkbutt that I'm not sure whatever other jerkbutt that takes the stage will be anywhere near as good a jerkbutt as Joffrey is.

[Cuchulainn]

Someone who shall remain nameless told me to come back to this thread.

So uh how about that Joffrey? He sure is a jerkbutt.

Don't worry you'll start liking him soon. He becomes a dragon.

[Shlup]

There are book spoilers behind the spoiler tags for the most part, but some things that some people like myself would consider spoilers such as character direction (eg. ____ will start getting more badass, ____ will redeem themselves"). Non-specific spoilers, if you like. I'm personally a big fan of not having any idea about what will happen next.

I haven't seen anyone say anything like that aside from referencing current events in the show. Every time I've seen someone leave even vague spoilers unmarked, I've marked them. Quit scaring people off, you slut!

after that, he starts redeeming himself and becomes more morally adept in just a few books.
And as Pike clearly displays, it's not just me that feels this way... just sayin'.
Everyone's talking about Jaime redeeming himself (including you), but you decide that one must be referring to future events. Having read the books myself, it seemed to me she was referring to current events, but if you feel it was referring to future books then why don't you make use of your shiny admin title and put a spoiler tag on it like I do when people's posts are iffy. Pike left the thread because you told her to, not because she read a spoiler. I finally agree with everyone that you should be Ned because Ned made stupid decisions and died.


So uh how about that Joffrey? He sure is a jerkbutt.

He is. He is totally a jerkbutt. He has been known to make me yell at the TV in aggravation just from the looks on his face. Like when he says he's going to give Stannis a "red smile" I just want to knock my TV over.

[Loony BoB]

Everyone's talking about Jaime redeeming himself (including you), but you decide that one must be referring to future events.
She literally mentioned what happend at the very end of the last episode and then said what I previously quoted, then discussed what happens "after that" point for "the next few books". I'd say that is the very definition of referring to future events. xD You guys are the ones making a big deal about it, I was just pointing it out.


Having read the books myself, it seemed to me she was referring to current events, but if you feel it was referring to future books then why don't you make use of your shiny admin title and put a spoiler tag on it like I do when people's posts are iffy.
Guilty on that, I'll do it now. I have no idea why I didn't do it earlier, to be honest.


Pike left the thread because you told her to, not because she read a spoiler.
I didn't tell her to leave the thread. O_o I said something accurate and let her make her own call.

[Quindiana Jones]

Someone who shall remain nameless told me to come back to this thread.

So uh how about that Joffrey? He sure is a jerkbutt.

Don't worry you'll start liking him soon. He becomes a dragon.

I like his romance with Davos best.

[Jinx]

Joffrey is a golden lion.

[Loony BoB]

Cersei, on the other hand, is just plain lyin'.

[Cuchulainn]

Someone who shall remain nameless told me to come back to this thread.

So uh how about that Joffrey? He sure is a jerkbutt.

Don't worry you'll start liking him soon. He becomes a dragon.

I like his romance with Davos best.

Really? I thought that was a bit contrived, however when he brought Ned back to life using the blood of a Snark he really did turn shit around for himself.

[Quindiana Jones]

I guess I can kinda see that. I really liked how Ned rekindled his old romance with Davos after being resurrected, though.

[Jinx]

I guess I can kinda see that. I really liked how Ned rekindled his old romance with Davos after being resurrected, though.

He had some stanky onion breath after that.

[Cuchulainn]

I guess I can kinda see that. I really liked how Ned rekindled his old romance with Davos after being resurrected, though.

totally man, what about when when Brienne killed Joffrey with her overbearing mangina?

[Formalhaut]

http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/5/5/8/177558_slide.jpg?v=1 (http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_569_18-celebrity-endorsements-that-would-actually-make-sense_p18/#2)

[NorthernChaosGod]

Cersei, on the other hand, is just plain lyin'.

On her back. Amirite? :jokey:

[Shlup]

[lies]
To the black cells with you.

[Denmark]

i had forgotten i got this wallpaper and put it in my rotation. it came up today.

http://i.imgur.com/HTZapzV.jpg

[chionos]

ooohhhh pretty

[Rantz]

now that's a sweetass motherfunky wallpizzle.

[Pike]

i had forgotten i got this wallpaper and put it in my rotation. it came up today.

http://i.imgur.com/HTZapzV.jpg

I've been using that wallpaper for a little while but my monitor is tiny and not widescreen so Starks and Targaryens get cut off :(

[The Man]

I think I have a new wallpaper.

[Jinx]

i had forgotten i got this wallpaper and put it in my rotation. it came up today.

http://i.imgur.com/HTZapzV.jpg

I've been using that wallpaper for a little while but my monitor is tiny and not widescreen so Starks and Targaryens get cut off :(

Mine too. :(

I guess we could resize?

[Madame Adequate]

i had forgotten i got this wallpaper and put it in my rotation. it came up today.

http://i.imgur.com/HTZapzV.jpg

I've been using that wallpaper for a little while but my monitor is tiny and not widescreen so Starks and Targaryens get cut off :(

That's okay, House Tyrell is on there so really everything is fine :)

[Jinx]

As in love as I am with the Eyrie, Casterly Rock looks bitchin.

[Freya]

Man this episode! Formy do not click this you'll spoil yourself I'M WARNING YOU FORMY. IT'S ABOUT THIS JUST AIRED ONE.

I knew it was going to happen but I still gasped at Mormont's stabbing. And they are making Dany so badass. She was all "Valyrian is my mother tongue BITCH"

http://i.imgur.com/OIiLlex.gif

[Formalhaut]

Sheesh, calm down Freya! Though your panicked pleas do make me very interested for the episode. I can sort of guess based on the title what's going to happen, but I'll see if I'm right later.

[chionos]

Same here Freya, I tried to steel myself for that moment, but it was still shocking and painful.

Great episode. Great great episode on several fronts. Loved the Tywin scene.


"Margaery has her claws in Joffrey. She knows how to manipulate him."

"Good. I wish you knew how to manipulate him."

The look on Cersei's face is priceless. Then:

"I don't distrust you because you're a woman. I distrust you because you're not as smart as you think you are."


And by the kraken, when that man says "I will" I believe he fucking will.

Daeny's "coming out" scene was fantastic, obviously.

[LocoColt04]

I knew it was going to happen but I still gasped at Mormont's stabbing. And they are making Dany so badass. She was all "Valyrian is my mother tongue BITCH"

http://i.imgur.com/OIiLlex.gifDAT GIF

Also seriously don't click that if you haven't watched the episode yet.

It's just a shame that we couldn't have seen more of the items relevant to that specific scene throughout the episode. There are so many split plots at the moment because all of the characters are all over the place that they have to try so hard to include all the simultaneous events into single episodes. Nuts!

[Rantz]

42637

[blackmage_nuke]

It was obvious what was going to happen with Daenyrs but I still loved the scene. Talk about buyers remorse. Wonder if the Dothraki will ever be mentioned again now that she has a horde of Unsullied

I almost feel sorry for Theon

Dont know whats going to happen to Sansa but I have a feeling it wont be good.

[Aulayna]

I loved it.

Totally going back to this set too!

[Formalhaut]

42637

Love the Monopoly board! Here's a question though: why is the fingers so high on the board? Their a tiny strip of land in the Vale, they should surely be in the Brown zone area!

[Madame Adequate]

Danaerys Targaryen is the most stone cold badass in the world and I would totally fight for her.

And I KNEW that guy with Theon was a ruseman! I knew it! Oh man that whole episode was intense and amazing. All that shit that went down in that episode and at Craster's Keep and Margaery managing to make Joffrey smile and Varys and Olenna Tyrell oh man. Oh man.

[Formalhaut]

And I KNEW that guy with Theon was a ruseman! I knew it!

Gee, THANKS MILF. The UK premiere is tonight. :colbert:

[Madame Adequate]

Oh jesus an episode that has ALREADY AIRED is not a spoiler. If you know it's already been watched by 90% of the planet, by virtue of them being American or civilized people who torrent, then it's on your own head if you come bumbling in.

[Night Fury]

Am I the only person who is actually kind of bored with Dany?

I liked that whole episode better up until her part, sorry.

[Madame Adequate]

Given that that's the most important thing she's done since hatching the Dragons I can't really wrap my head around why you'd find it boring :p

[Night Fury]

Just predictable, MILF. Don't get me wrong, I've been enjoying her story. But for this episode, in which she hadn't appeared at all until then... I don't know, it just felt out of place in this one. Maybe if there had been a more Dany-centric episode when it had happened.

I'm a lot more interested in the Jaime and Brienne story right now.

[Freya]

Are you crazy? that was one of the best scenes in the series. She commanded such attention. You're cray cray.

[Night Fury]

Yeah it was well done and shot etc etc, but just predictable and felt out of place in that episode imo.

But then tbf, she isn't my favourite character and I don't want her to take the Iron Throne. I won't be happy unless it's Arya and Gendry sat on there - but that's like, the most unlikely scenario to ever happen in the history of ever :(

[Freya]

Also,

http://25.media.tumblr.com/4d02417744885f2b888cf1c5f70801f7/tumblr_mln5v9Ybv71qkwee2o3_250.gif

LOOK AT THE CRAZY. He's so excited.

[Madame Adequate]

That's not acting, it's just what Welsh people look like.

[Shorty]

Also,

http://25.media.tumblr.com/4d02417744885f2b888cf1c5f70801f7/tumblr_mln5v9Ybv71qkwee2o3_250.gif

LOOK AT THE CRAZY. He's so excited.

That kid is in Misfits and he has the smurfing creepy look on his face the entire time.

This past episode is one of my favorites. I'll never understand why Danaerys gets so much hate. I've liked her from the beginning, and she's becoming the character that I thought she would. Her actions may have been a little predictable but she gave the slavers the biggest ass-whooping anyone could have hoped for.

It's quite interesting to see Cersei develop. She seemed to have concocted this little plan for Joffrey to be king and for everything to go her way, and now she isn't getting what she wants, Joffrey is running amok and Jaime has been a prisoner for a year? over a year? Now the Tyrells are in the picture and she doesn't know how they plan to manipulate Joffrey and the only thing she can to is wring her hands and become anxious about it. Nothing left to do but go to Tywin for help, only she does it all wrong and he's like "sit down, you little trout, I've got this under control."

I adore Jaime. I just adore him. The way he spoke to Brienne about what was going to happen to her shows that he clearly cares about her, or her well-being, in any case, and then he went and stuck his neck out for her and ultimately ended up paying the price instead. He could have kept his mouth shut and just gone on with Brienne screaming. That was a huge character reveal to me. I'm so intrigued to see how he develops further. I can only imagine the loss of identity and self-worth that he is going through right now.

I hope that at some point in time, Cersei and Jaime will be reunited, and I'm so interested to see how they fare with one another after so many different situations and mistakes and things that have happened to them.

also I don't want The Hound to die, he's one of my favorites and I love him to pieces ;_________________________;

[Psychotic]

Danaerys Targaryen is the most stone cold badass in the world I never thought I would say this as she is generally one of the most boring characters but good smurfing god, that was an act of an utter monster. Fire and Blood. Brilliant. Well done, TV series, well done.
I'll never understand why Danaerys gets so much hateBooks. She's smurfing boring. In Season 2 of the show she was lame too.

In other news: Tywin is a smurfing beast, I can't wait for the Dondarrion - Hound throwdown, I also can't wait to see the direction they take Theon and his new playmate in, hello again Varys good to see you're still around! and JORRAH YOUR DADDY :whimper:

[Shorty]

The Hound had better tear him to pieces or I am going to be writing some angry letters featuring explicit illustrations.

[Rantz]

Excellent episode. I'm really excited for every single storyline right now. I would watch a show that consisted solely of Tywin verbally bitchslapping his lessers, one at a time, for an hour straight.

[Night Fury]

Excellent episode. I'm really excited for every single storyline right now. I would watch a show that consisted solely of Tywin verbally bitchslapping his lessers, one at a time, for an hour straight.

And all the time he's just sat at his desk wax-sealing his letters.

[chionos]

I would watch a show that consisted solely of Tywin verbally bitchslapping his lessers, one at a time, for an hour straight.

Yep.

[Pike]

THIS JUST IN

DAENERYS TARGARYEN IS THE BEST CHARACTER IN THE ENTIRE DAMN SHOW

[chionos]

For that episode.

Maybe.

[Aulayna]

I was expecting her to get her dragon back after trading it for the Unsullied so it was a bit predictable. What I wasn't expecting was the manner in which she did it - that was just immense.

[Pike]

I was expecting her to get her dragon back after trading it for the Unsullied so it was a bit predictable. What I wasn't expecting was the manner in which she did it - that was just immense.

Yep, same here.

I still think she's great. I've thought so since the second episode she was in (she annoyed me in the first)

[Aulayna]

Someone needs to sort out my house title again!

[Bunny]

You need a house to have a title. All you have is dragons.

The episode was overall very good despite not having a lot of action in it. The scenes Beyond the Wall were very well done and it showed just how far the Night's Watch has fallen and will continue to fall. Dany's scene was one scene in particular that I had been anticipating since the beginning of the show and even moreso since the start of this season. It was incredibly well done, powerful, and shows the evolution that she has gone through over the last few seasons and how she will continue to grow as it carries on.

[Madame Adequate]

Yeah I knew Dany had something up her sleeve but then again this is GoT, so the fact there was no twist was a twist. And she was stone cold as I said so, welp, I'd fight for her :shobon:

[Aulayna]

You need a house to have a title. All you have is dragons.

Yeah and you could say that they came in quite :sunglasses: handy! YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

[Lonely Paper Star]

It was a great episode. I might have to watch it again. I both look forward to and dread what will happen with Ramsay smurfing Bolton and Theon. Like what Freya pointed out in that .gif of Iwan Rheon, that look on his face is so maniacal and awesome omfg.

If you're caught up on the episodes, Tumblr can be very fun and funny (http://sabotensan.tumblr.com/post/48616373745).

But I wished they gave more poignancy to Jeor Mormont's death by including this line (Storm of Swords spoil) (http://smurfyeahgameofthrones.tumblr.com/post/48615628163/frompillow-mormonts-head-was-still-in-his).

[Bolivar]

I think I liked every episode this season better than the last so far. This one might've been my favorite in the entire series!

I can't believe Varys had the sorcerer who cut him imported, I wonder how that's going to impact the story. Also when Tywin says "I will," I wonder if it corroborates the theory that he was at least complicit in the Purple Wedding.

[chionos]

No way, that's not his style at all.

[Raistlin]

Great episode, easily the best of the season so far.

While it's true that Dany not losing the dragon was ridiculously predictable, the manner in which it was done was incredible, resulting in one of the best scenes of the whole series. Even for an obnoxiously slow-developing book series, Dany is especially slow -- even season 2 of the TV show couldn't make her subplot during that part very interesting -- but the TV show has done an overall fantastic job with her.

And yes, Tywin is a badass, Varys is awesome, the Tyrells add a much deeper political element, and just the whole damn episode was great -- despite only having cameos of Tyrion and Arya.

[Freya]

Yah know, even in the books, I never found Dany boring. I don't understand that comment that book readers make about it. I find the whole series interesting. Although, people say i'm easy to please when it comes to stories/movies/shows. I don't think so, I just appreciate the character archs/development/importance of every character that's worth more than a few mentions/screentime. Even shaggydog deserves some love!

[Del Murder]

This was the best episode of the season and it's a rare one where showing a bit of each storyline actually worked well. It helps when there's actual progression in each story (well most of them, the Bran and Jamie storylines still falter, hurry up and get to where you're going already).

Dany and Samwell's storylines get an A+ in this episode though. The King's Landing stuff was also very entertaining. Varys is a great character and should be shown more often.

[Aulayna]

Just had to share this gem, it's a few weeks old now but made me chortle:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/7f184af407f84442a61cb007036c013a/tumblr_mlemxntrLL1qdyjvro1_500.gif

http://24.media.tumblr.com/2825c85ce2d3cd7570211db8057071dc/tumblr_mlemxntrLL1qdyjvro2_500.gif

[Shorty]

ahahahahahhaaaaaa that is the best GoT thing I have ever seen. Thank christ for tumblr.

[Miriel]

Fantastic episode!

Although I will say that the Dany stuff was way predictable, but still awesome. I assumed that she would have the unsullied kill everyone, and I also assumed she would have her dragon burn the main slaver guy. It seemed the most sensible thing to do, and she did it. I like badass Dany. Get it, girl.

I love Varys. I think he's my favorite.

Worst line of the episode came from Brienne's lips. Women don't need to be hating on other women. :colbert: I know she said it to get a jolt out of Jamie, but it seemed especially dumb on a show where the girls have NOT been shown to be defeatist and whiny. So no, Brienne, Jamie was not acting like a woman.

[Rantz]

Yah know, even in the books, I never found Dany boring. I don't understand that comment that book readers make about it. I find the whole series interesting. Although, people say i'm easy to please when it comes to stories/movies/shows. I don't think so, I just appreciate the character archs/development/importance of every character that's worth more than a few mentions/screentime. Even shaggydog deserves some love!
Me too! There's not much in the books I actually think is boring.


Worst line of the episode came from Brienne's lips. Women don't need to be hating on other women. :colbert: I know she said it to get a jolt out of Jamie, but it seemed especially dumb on a show where the girls have NOT been shown to be defeatist and whiny. So no, Brienne, Jamie was not acting like a woman.

I agree with you in principle, but given her personality and the culture of Westeros it makes complete sense for her to say it. It's a stupid thing to say but it's a very fitting and believable line.

[Miriel]

Believable maybe, but still dumb as smurf.

Arya did this in the 1st season too and it annoyed me then. Annoys me now.

[chionos]

I cringed to hear her say it too, even though I think it perfectly fits her personality. The look on her face after she said it seemed to imply perhaps that it shocked even her. I think she said it just to goad Jamie, but after she said it she realized that she really meant it. I don't think she fully understands her inner conflict with the female gender, but hopefully that's something we'll see worked out as the show progresses.

[Loony BoB]

I think it was a line that fits the world.

My thoughts on the most recent episode...

I'm with those that thought the Dany stuff was predictable, down to the fine details. I just found it weird that someone who supposedly commanded so many would actually fall for it without having a cunning plan, but I still predicted this would be the case because he's portrayed as an arrogant twat from the start and arrogant twats don't tend to have good backup plans.

I really liked pretty much every scene at King's Landing. Like Miriel, I adore Varys and he's one of my favourites, so it was great to get a couple of scenes out of him. It will be interesting to see which actions Joffrey takes as he looks to win the favour of the people.

About time all those things happened North of the Wall. The guy had it coming. What I didn't expect is for everyone to go batshit insane over it and have a war amongst themselves. Really hope Sam's pals catch up with him, because I like that little trio.

I TOLD YOU NOT TO CLIMB YOU LITTLE RUNT. God damn, man, have a nice dream for a change.

[blackmage_nuke]

Just because she's a woman she's not allowed to be a mysoginist now?

[Shlup]

No one's allowed to be misogynist. Duh.

I cringed at that line too, but chalked it up to her trying to find something that would get to Jaime. I get that she has conflict with her gender, but she's a girly girl in a lot of ways--I've never considered her someone who looked down on her gender, just didn't fit the accepted roles very well.

Overall great episode blah blah. When Tywin told Cersei she was stupid BJ cheered and it amused me. Joffrey's excitement giving Margery the tour was adorable in a "lord I am going to stab him in his smarmy face" sort of way.

[Pheesh]

Sansa has gone from being the most annoying character to the one that I feel for the most. Great acting mixed with an awesome arc and my heart is in a constant state of breaking for her. Her scenes with the Tyrells have probably been my favourites of the last two episodes and I especially never thought I would end up liking Sansa more than I do Arya, but to me Arya has really been dull this season.

I also agree with everyone that said the previous episode was the best of this season.

[Night Fury]

Yeah the Night's Watch bit was probably my favourite in the episode! Very tense.

[Ouch!]

Characters in work of fiction are allowed to express worldviews without the implication that said worldview has been endorsed. George R. R. Martin is routinely criticized because he writes about a world where women are regularly brutalized and raped, and it is often written in a matter-of-fact tone. He's writing in a medieval setting where women do not have the same basic rights that men do, and despite writing multiple female characters who manage to take power for themselves in that world, he is often regarded as a misogynist just because bad trout happens to women in his books. Characters can say and do things that disgust you. Sometimes that's the point of a character.

It's like saying that Lolita isn't one of the best books ever written because the main character is a twisted pedophile. Doesn't make the book any less amazing.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that anyone is accusing the show itself of being misogynist or that it's not allowed to have characters who are, but it is a step that I've seen far too many people take.

[Pike]

Characters in work of fiction are allowed to express worldviews without the implication that said worldview has been endorsed. George R. R. Martin is routinely criticized because he writes about a world where women are routinely brutalized and raped, and it is often written in a matter-of-fact tone. He's writing in a medieval setting where women do not have the same basic rights that men do, and despite writing multiple female characters who manage to take power for themselves in that world, he is often regarded as a misogynist just because bad shit happens to women in his books. Characters can say and do things that disgust you. Sometimes that's the point of a character.

It's like saying that Lolita isn't one of the best books ever written because the main character is a twisted pedophile. Doesn't make the book any less amazing.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that anyone is accusing the show itself of being misogynist or that it's not allowed to have characters who are, but it is a step that I've seen far too many people take.

You need to come and say this in the Wakka thread because we're having this exact conversation over there right now.

[Del Murder]

It's like saying that Lolita isn't one of the best books ever written because the main character is a twisted pedophile. Doesn't make the book any less amazing.
Um, yeah it does.

[Loony BoB]

There are a lot of things well beyond misogyny that occur in Game of Thrones that are not something I endorse nor like seeing other people endorse, but if the entire show was all about how to plant trees and cuddle then I probably wouldn't watch it. Zach's right.

There are many books where the main character is a murderer, a druggie, a whore, etc. which are fantastic. I don't see how a book about pedophiles or misogynists or anything like that are somehow not amazing purely because of them being about that kind of person.

[Ouch!]

It's like saying that Lolita isn't one of the best books ever written because the main character is a twisted pedophile. Doesn't make the book any less amazing.
Um, yeah it does.
And yet somehow it's still frequently ranked as one of the best novels ever written and highly regarded for the quality of its writing and how it engages the reader with the mind of a morally reprehensible narrator. I would argue that Lolita is amazing and engaging because the subject matter is so disturbing. It's about how Nabokov writes that lets you interact with the narrator when every little bit of you is condemning him.

If you only read/watch stuff that affirms your own moral worldview and does not make you uncomfortable, you're missing out.

[Cuchulainn]

Terrible episode. No Stannis.

[Del Murder]

If you only read/watch stuff that affirms your own moral worldview and does not make you uncomfortable, you're missing out.
I read Lolita. It's a classic, but not something you read romantically. I was mostly trolling you on that one, though. Obviously if Lolita was about a guy who just loved playing hopscotch with little girls it wouldn't have the same impact. Lolita is a classic and the moral reprehensibility of the main character is pretty much the fundamental theme of the book. It's just not as good as other well-written books without morally represensible main characters.

Back on subject, I've also read A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings. I liked them, but I think they would have been better without the rape, brutality, etc. I'm guessing from the sound of things it gets a lot worse, too. My beef with this series that differs from Lolita is that the gratuitous immorality in GoT is not critical to the central theme of the series. A lot of it is just in there for effect and it's hardly written as well as Lolita is. The two aren't even comparable.

There are several other examples in fantasy where the author uses obscenity and vile characters for dramatic effect and I just find it unncessary. It's a crutch almost. It doesn't have to be all peaches and rainbows, but if you're going to include a rape or torture scene, make it about something.

[The Man]

The immorality is central to the themes of the series, though. Game of Thrones is about a world that treats women utterly abysmally, and the gigantic psychological toll that aspect of their society takes on its characters. One of Martin's clear goals is to shine a light on the misogyny of our own society by presenting a society based on ours where the misogyny is, if anything, even worse than ours, and spelling out in explicit detail just how much harm that causes women and men alike. One can certainly criticise him for a lack of finesse in dealing with the issue in cases, and one can argue that he could have handled the matter more elegantly, but to claim the misogyny is not central to the themes of the books is missing a major theme of the series. It is one of the central themes of the series.

[Del Murder]

I think finesse and elegance is basically what I'm arguing though. It's fine for it to be a central theme of his novels, but man, he deals with it so coarsely. I also took a little offence to Ouchers comparing Martin to Nabokov. Come on now.


One of Martin's clear goals is to shine a light on the misogyny of our own society by presenting a society based on ours where the misogyny is, if anything, even worse than ours, and spelling out in explicit detail just how much harm that causes women and men alike.
Did he state this somewhere? Cause most of the time it seems like he's doing it just because it's his novels and he can put whatever he wants in them.

[The Man]

Well, the point is to depict a very coarse world that has no finesse in how it treats its women. It wouldn't be so shocking if the actions themselves weren't shocking. The whole point is to shock the reader - this in turn, the thought process goes, is likely to trigger reflections in the reader about how these events affect the characters. If people were just rude to women it wouldn't trigger as much awareness. The violence and brutality is what drives the whole point home.

And I don't think I need to go into the fact that we have an awful lot of violence and brutality in our own society; much of it is just hidden under the surface, although in the age of the Internet this is changing somewhat.

Also I don't think Zach was intending to say Martin should be regarded on the same tier as Nabokov. Obviously Nabokov's prose is superior to all but a handful of other 20th century writers'.


Did he state this somewhere? Cause most of the time it seems like he's doing it just because it's his novels and he can put whatever he wants in them.
I can't remember if he's explicitly said it (I think he's implied it at least) but if you read interviews with him it's obvious that he's put a lot of thought into why the women are treated the way they are and many of them, such as Cersei being paraded naked through King's Landing, are based on actual historical events. The texual evidence for this is pretty strong, anyway, since you'd have to be an oaf to miss how much the women in Martin's novels suffer, and how much of this suffering is directly consequent of the misogyny of the setting.

[Pike]

Speaking of this whole conversation:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/30dea8414734d62bab41cb78a4eff91a/tumblr_mfbgazkMSM1s11bbpo1_400.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/11df218356565c55f68fe77b51b4afed/tumblr_mfbbrfUmUl1s11bbpo1_400.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/620ae587bac26e99620ec79dcf56b1a5/tumblr_mfqbx2Ugdx1s11bbpo1_1280.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/35b7c50d7e483d8034d411cae55bcc1b/tumblr_mfetizyvEj1s11bbpo1_500.jpg

[Del Murder]

Shock and vulgarity is one of the most effortless ways to get your point across. It requires no real talent. So you can suck my dick. See? Took no effort on my part. I guess I don't give a lot of credit to writers who use shock and vulgarity because it's so easy. Going back to the Lolita example, Nabokov used anything but shock and vulgarity to describe that obession. So when Martin does it, it just makes me roll my eyes rather than underscore any theme of the story.

[chionos]

I don't think it's just about shock value. It's an attempt at stark reality. Since when does rape in the real world make any sense? Since when does it have purpose? It's ugly and painful and there's absolutely no finesse or elegance or poise or beauty about it whatsoever. Why should the novel be different? (not rhetorical, a case could be made for the novel needing to be differentiated from reality in certain situations, but I haven't really heard anyone make the case for this particular set of stories)

Also, is it this next episode or the one after that's going to be completely mindsmurfing terrible-awesome?

Some of these stories are getting to places I really wanted to see.

EDIT: Keep in mind that these are not "novels" in the same way that Lolita is a novel. The latter is literature, and the former is fantasy/genre fiction. Each requires a different approach and a different set of tools to confirm the narrative.

[The Man]

Yeah, it's not just that it's shocking; it's that it's shocking and that it mirrors events in our own world. Rape and torture like those depicted in the novel are disturbingly common even today. Perhaps not as common as they seem to be in Westeros, but then, we're not in the midst of a war in this country. Rape and torture happen all the time in war.

[Ouch!]

I wasn't suggesting that Nabokov and Martin deserve to be considered on the same level as writers, and you know that, Tmoney.

Frankly, one of the problems I have with a lot of fantasy is that it's often afraid to touch on some of the stuff that Martin touches on. The world is not a nice place, and fantasy far too often falls back on a generally pleasant population with all the evil in the world wrapped up into a single character (or group of characters) who serve as the main villains and are the source of almost all misfortune in the world.

Martin has always tried to take a step away from that. Bad stuff happens to good people. Good stuff happens to bad people. Stuff happens for no reason. It's why a young boy is crippled not even a quarter of the way through the first book. It's why there's a house whose sigil is a flayed man, and the family is notorious for torture. It's why a young girl is beaten by knights sworn to protect at the order of the king. It's why a queen struggles so hard to prove that she belongs in a world of men. The world's ambivalence to good and evil, and the brutality of man is absolutely central to just about everything that happens in the book. If you strip that away, if you take away the rape, the incest, the misogyny, and the bigotry you take away most of what makes A Song of Ice and Fire different from most other fantasy, because when you take all of that away, a lot of the characters very quickly become very boring.