Game of Thrones: House of the Dragon!

[Freya]

We already decided you'd have preferred a fashion show as the big conflict in Clash of Kings. So shoo shoo you.

[Jinx]

I hate you, Kaycee.

[Freya]

:kaoclove:

[Raistlin]

I feel like anyone who would think Cat is stupid hasn't bothered to take a moment to really put themselves in her shoes. Her husband was murdered, the murderers hold her daughters (well, they don't know Arya's MIA), another murderer has her little boys... though I was sure that at this point in the books she had heard Theon killed the boys. She is a mother, and all of her childrens' lives are in very direct danger. If I were her, I would be fucking shit up all over the place to save my kids. Getting her girls back costs her, what, Jaime? In the books she makes him swear an oath not to take up arms again, at least. Regardless, what kind of parent wouldn't trade one guy for their captive children? He's a good fighter, sure, but it's not even like he's a great tactician; he can be captured or killed, but there may not be another chance for Cat to save her girls, especially since Karstark was looking to kill Jaime the first chance he'd get.

If she had even the slightest reason to think releasing Jaime actually would result in her getting her daughters back, maybe. But she doesn't. At all.

And this is not too far removed from when she arrested Tyrion and insisted he tried to kill Bran on absolutely no evidence, risking her husband's and daughters' lives in the process.

Yeah, Cat is retarded. You can sympathize in her position without condoning her conduct. IIRC, it was around this point in the books that I wrote Cat off as a character for simply being just too unrealistically stupid.

[Jinx]

I feel like anyone who would think Cat is stupid hasn't bothered to take a moment to really put themselves in her shoes. Her husband was murdered, the murderers hold her daughters (well, they don't know Arya's MIA), another murderer has her little boys... though I was sure that at this point in the books she had heard Theon killed the boys. She is a mother, and all of her childrens' lives are in very direct danger. If I were her, I would be smurfing tit up all over the place to save my kids. Getting her girls back costs her, what, Jaime? In the books she makes him swear an oath not to take up arms again, at least. Regardless, what kind of parent wouldn't trade one guy for their captive children? He's a good fighter, sure, but it's not even like he's a great tactician; he can be captured or killed, but there may not be another chance for Cat to save her girls, especially since Karstark was looking to kill Jaime the first chance he'd get.

If she had even the slightest reason to think releasing Jaime actually would result in her getting her daughters back, maybe. But she doesn't. At all.

And this is not too far removed from when she arrested Tyrion and insisted he tried to kill Bran on absolutely no evidence, risking her husband's and daughters' lives in the process.

Yeah, Cat is retarded. You can sympathize in her position without condoning her conduct. IIRC, it was around this point in the books that I wrote Cat off as a character for simply being just too unrealistically stupid.

It can be argued that her doing that started the chain of events that got Ned beheaded and started this whole war.

[Shlup]

If she had even the slightest reason to think releasing Jaime actually would result in her getting her daughters back, maybe. But she doesn't. At all.

I disagree. It was a desperate, grief-driven move, but I don't agree at all that there's no chance Cersei would trade the girls for Jaime. Also, that decision leads to Brienne and Jaime hanging out, which is one of my favorite storylines, and leads to Jaime becoming one of my favorite characters. So even if you're unable to emphathise with Cat (and I really honestly don't expect you of all people to be capable of that), the results of that decision, so far, have been awesome.

Though I do agree that arresting Tyrion was a bad decision. Still, every character has made at least one decision that bad or worse, but we don't just declare "This book is full of retards!" and quit reading.

Arresting Tyrion turned out to have titty consequences, but attempting to trade off Jaime so far has had awesome consequences so boo on you both.

Also if someone from the Northern army didn't kill Jaime beforehand (as they stated directly, in the show that they probably would have), he would've been released during the Red Wedding anyway. Cat couldn't have predicted the Red Wedding, obviously, but I say it all worked out the best way it was gonna.

[Jinx]

Are you booing me? What did I do? :(

[Shlup]

Supporting Raistlin in any capacity gets you boo'd.

[Jinx]

I can completely understand why she'd try to trade Jaime Lannister. Yeah, it probably wouldn't have worked, buuuuuuuuuut...it was the only way she could forsee a chance of getting back her daughters. I always kind of thought Robb was a dick for caring more about his appearance as a king than his sisters.

But I think it was stupid she kidnapped Tyrion.

[Freya]

I dunno, Jaime is well, a badass, and not only that he's a symbol for the lannisters. He was a leader of their armies. He was a very important captive. His capture was a huge blow to the Lannister's morale as well as their forces. If they gave him back he would be back with the lannisters and could be fighting and winning against them and their cause.

Cat just letting him go was a stupid move. The way she did it was a stupid way. It wasn't like it would have been in any form a successful return, one person (show wise) to escort one of the most important captives across the land to negotiate a trade of the Stark girls. Like the Lannisters would really, in good faith, give them back. Just from the knowledge they have at that point, they wouldn't be the type of people to just be like "OH OKAY HERE have your girls back ^_^ it's all good ^_^" The only knowledge (show wise) that they have that they'd ever give them up is Littlefinger going "yeah we'll totes give em back." There was no agreement, no formal discussion. No it was just her going "oh I HOPE they are true to their word even though they are notorious for fucking our shit up. I'll get my girls back!"

It was a stupid move. Stupid. Even grief stricken as she is in the books, it's still stupid. I understand she sees it as her only option to get some of her only living children back but it doesn't mean it wasn't a stupid move and Robb has every right to be a dick about it. She just lost a valuable asset to his cause. Even before the Jeyne nonsense, he could have at least been like "well I still have the kingslayer yo" but he didn't. So after he loses support from the freys and the karstarks and then the whole losing the kingslayer thing as well as theon messing up his shit in winterfell so he doesn't even have a home to go to, he's left with a very weak camp. According to the TV storyline so far, he's already lost winterfell. Okay that's a strike down but he still has the kingslayer, OH WAIT nvm. Well at least he'll still have the support of his troops, OH WAIT he just ruined that by sleeping with Charlie Chaplin's grandaughter just they haven't shown the repercussions of that little tryst just yet. Theu just alluded to it when he mentioned he didn't want the Frey girl. So yah, Cat made an extremely stupid move for the King of the North. He makes an equally stupid move but it just weakens an already weakened camp due to her move.

Cat is really the big reason everything ends up the way it is. The tensions were palpable with Ned in the capital, yah, but with her taking Tyrion, she causes everything to just spark off and take motion. She was the one who put her children in such danger. Grief stricken or not, it doesn't mean it was a smart move. And hell, instead of getting her ass back to winterfell to be with her youngest children not in the capital she chills out with Robb. Whom, while he is leading a war, he is very capable of defending himself as well as everyone around him. What is she really going to do to help with being there? She's no Brienne. In the show they don't even have the lord hoster thing to keep her there. She's just chillin' to chill. If she was at winterfell she could have been like "Uh Bran, probably not a good idea to send all the men away from winterfell when everyone wants your family dead cause of the war going on...." But no, she's so worried about certain parts of her family that she forgets others. Apparently Bran and Rickon weren't important to her even though one was like 6 and the other a cripple. Cat is an idiot.

[Shlup]

Jaime is a good fighter, and he's a symbol to the Lannisters, but that's about it. He's already been captured, and that morale blow isn't going to be completely undone just because he's back. Besides the fact that he doesn't make it back in one piece... The girls being captive is also a huge blow the the Northern army, and makes them weaker in that they don't want to do anything that could get the girls killed. Lannisters are tricky, but they always pay their debts. I don't agree that it was all that stupid. I really doubt that there are many people who, seeing one opportunity to get their children back from the people who murdered their husband, would pass that up because he's a good war prize, especially what with so many people in that camp already planning on killing him.

Every single character does at least one thing as stupid as anything Cat has done. I don't get why she gets so much crap for the things she does for her kids, while the motivations for most of the bad decisions made my characters in this series are done for far stupider reasons.

[Freya]

He's not just a symbol he is one of THE lannisters. He's not some cousin or anything, that's a direct slap in the face to them. If they, the northern army, were really worried about the girls as an army they wouldn't fight the war at all. Yet, they are, so they must not care that much. Cat gets the hate because she deserves it. At least others redeem themselves in their mistakes. Cat just keeps making more of them. She claims she makes them for the safety of her children but by doing so she endangers more of her children. All the men do want to harm jamie but by her releasing him it makes robb weak and discord with them and puts him in danger. Good job Cat!

[Miriel]

Um, didn't they explicitly say that Mr. Handsome Man Kingslayer was going to die that night? If I were Cat, and the options were A) Let the mob take his head off, or B) I could try and trade him for my girls, I would try and trade him.

Calling out Cat as being especially stupid is the stupidest thing ever. Because as far as I'm concerned, pretty much everyone on this show aside from Tyrion and Arya are idiots. Ned was stupid, Theon is stupid, Jon Snow seems epically stupid AND emo, even Daenerys is not too bright. Who leaves their dragons alone in a strange place? I mean, really now.

Just a bunch of stupid people killing each other or getting naked with each other. That's what this show is. And on that note, I am so tired of seeing so many tits and ass from the women and hardly anything at all from the men. I wanted that silly nurse girl's butt to get out of the way (even though it was a very nice butt) so that I could get some Rob eyecandy. But nooooo, it's always with the naked girls. That pisses me off. Sexism, dammit!

[Freya]

I found this, it amused me. A chicken will move.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4cze0ntpT1r91vrdo1_500.gif

[Shlup]

He's not just a symbol he is one of THE lannisters. He's not some cousin or anything, that's a direct slap in the face to them. If they, the northern army, were really worried about the girls as an army they wouldn't fight the war at all. Yet, they are, so they must not care that much. Cat gets the hate because she deserves it. At least others redeem themselves in their mistakes. Cat just keeps making more of them. She claims she makes them for the safety of her children but by doing so she endangers more of her children. All the men do want to harm jamie but by her releasing him it makes robb weak and discord with them and puts him in danger. Good job Cat!
I disagree with all of this quite a lot. Also, Cat doesn't want this war. She doesn't dig vengeance.


Um, didn't they explicitly say that Mr. Handsome Man Kingslayer was going to die that night? If I were Cat, and the options were A) Let the mob take his head off, or B) I could try and trade him for my girls, I would try and trade him.

Calling out Cat as being especially stupid is the stupidest thing ever.
*hi5*


And on that note, I am so tired of seeing so many tits and ass from the women and hardly anything at all from the men. I wanted that silly nurse girl's butt to get out of the way (even though it was a very nice butt) so that I could get some Rob eyecandy. But nooooo, it's always with the naked girls. That pisses me off. Sexism, dammit!
This too! Naked women are pretty and all, but the only dongs we've gotten have been Hodor's and Theon's. Theon looked pretty good naked, but he's a total butterface. The Chaplin girl had a very nice bum, but I wanted to throw things at the screen when the scene cut before showing me Robb's goodies. Life is so unfair.

[Rantz]

Calling out Cat as being especially stupid is the stupidest thing ever. Because as far as I'm concerned, pretty much everyone on this show aside from Tyrion and Arya are idiots. Ned was stupid, Theon is stupid, Jon Snow seems epically stupid AND emo, even Daenerys is not too bright. Who leaves their dragons alone in a strange place? I mean, really now.
I never let my dragons out of sight.



And on that note, I am so tired of seeing so many tits and ass from the women and hardly anything at all from the men. I wanted that silly nurse girl's butt to get out of the way (even though it was a very nice butt) so that I could get some Rob eyecandy. But nooooo, it's always with the naked girls. That pisses me off. Sexism, dammit!
This too! Naked women are pretty and all, but the only dongs we've gotten have been Hodor's and Theon's. Theon looked pretty good naked, but he's a total butterface. The Chaplin girl had a very nice bum, but I wanted to throw things at the screen when the scene cut before showing me Robb's goodies. Life is so unfair.
It could be argued that Hodor showed twice as much skin as any girl has so far...

[Jinx]

And on that note, I am so tired of seeing so many tits and ass from the women and hardly anything at all from the men. I wanted that silly nurse girl's butt to get out of the way (even though it was a very nice butt) so that I could get some Rob eyecandy. But nooooo, it's always with the naked girls. That pisses me off. Sexism, dammit!
This too! Naked women are pretty and all, but the only dongs we've gotten have been Hodor's and Theon's. Theon looked pretty good naked, but he's a total butterface. The Chaplin girl had a very nice bum, but I wanted to throw things at the screen when the scene cut before showing me Robb's goodies. Life is so unfair.

We also so the dong of the guy who tried to assassinate Dany in season one. I too wanted to see Robb dong.

Chaplin's boobies were nice too.

[Psychotic]

Cat is stupid. Deal with it. This time though yes her actions were driven by grief rather than just plain ol' garden variety stupid like the time she captured Tyrion, which caused all of it, the war, Ned's death, all of it.

[Cuchulainn]

Cat is the most idiotic annoying smurfer in the books. This one woman caused a war, got ppl she loved killed and has the emotional maturity of a 13 year old One Direction fan.

smurf er

Interesting Fact: Oona Chaplin is Charlie Chaplins granddaugter and the great granddaughter of of the Nobel laureate Eugene O'Neill, who disowned his daughter for marrying Chaplain.

[Shlup]

You people are gross.

Jaime pushed Bran out a window, Joffrey sent an assassin after Bran using Tyrion's knife, Cat arrested Tyrion, Jaime attacked Ned in the streets and killed a bunch of his men. That was pretty much the end of that. The war started because Ned found out about the incest and was stupid enough to warn Cersei, which got him arrested, and then Joffrey killed Ned even after he swallowed his pride and falsely confessed to treason. That's what started the war.

Joffrey tried to kill Bran, but left evidence that it was Tyrion, leading Cat to arrest Tyrion. Joffrey killed Ned after being told not to. Yet you all blame Cat. Call her stupid, despite every single character making huge mistakes that lead to bunches of people dying. Name a character and I will name a decision they made that led to worse consequences than anything Catelyn has done. You all are dumbtits and I hate you and I hope it rains on your wedding day.

[Del Murder]

Are you sure it was Joffrey who tried to kill Bran? Kid was 12 at the time. Hard to plan an assassination at that age, especially for something you are seemingly unaware of. Unless that is a future book spoiler. That whole thing was never explained properly.

[Shlup]

I don't think it's a book spoiler. I spoiler tagged our posts just in case though. I'm pretty sure they laid out who ordered what in the show, though I don't think they were very explicit about it. I do know they said in the show that Joffrey ordered the Gold Cloaks to kill all of Robert's bastards, when in the books that was Cersei. They're making Cersei more human in the show, and making Joffrey more of a sociopath. The scene with him abusing the hookers didn't happen in the books.

[Freya]

Jamie attacked Ned in the street BECAUSE cat capture Tyrion. Causing Jamie to flee and the Lannisters to start raising and army. So the lannisters were already kinda "WTH MAN?!" At the Starks then Cersei hears from the silly little girl that Ned is planning on leaving/outing her incest. Well of course she tries to make the first move. He's about to ruin them. He makes the mistake of tellin' her he knows about it and as far as she knew he had evidence to prove it. And when Robert goes "yo give back tyrion" On his death bed, Ned's all "i can't it's my wife :( sorry" Because he wants to defend her honor as well as his. They could have avoided the whole mess and just gave Tyrion back and actually presented the evidence of the "assassination" and brought it all to light in public so people could see why they'd ever capture Tyrion.

But noooooooo Cat decided to take it upon herself to exact her own vengeance. She's not concerned with vengeance? If she wasn't she wouldn't have captured Tyrion. By Capturing Tyrion she causes Jamie to retaliate out of anger and attack Ned in the streets which causes the Lannisters to start hating the Starks openly so when Ned does make his "heeeey not your son" move it makes him look even worse cause they have this recent beef with them. So when they get ned to "confess" that he's a traitor he looks EVEN worse with everything else tacked on. And while they shouldn't have beheaded him because he was a war asset, he didn't have the best case behind him for them not to. Joff is a little prick, there is no denying that.

[Bunny]

Cat is the most idiotic annoying smurfer in the books. This one woman caused a war, got ppl she loved killed and has the emotional maturity of a 13 year old One Direction fan.

Which war did she cause?

[Shlup]

There is no change in hell that Cersei wouldn't have arrested/killed Ned after hearing he knew about the incest, which is what caused Robb to go to war. Stannis and Renly joined in because they heard about the incest. None of that has to do with Catelyn taking Tyrion into custody. If she hadn't taken Tyrion into custody, the war still would have happened in the same way. The only difference is that Jaime wouldn't have attacked Ned in the streets, which was a stupid move on Jaime's part--blaming Catelyn for something Jaime did is messed up.

I forgot about Sansa being the one to tell Cersei that Ned was planning on GTFOing. She's a naive little girl who learned to shut the fuck up pretty quickly after that, though, so I'm not gonna call her stupid for it.

Catelyn arresting Tyrion pissed the Lannisters off, but not as much as Ned threatening to out them for the incest. I really have no idea why people are so hellbent on blaming Catelyn for something she had nothing to do with. I know Ned is a beloved character, but the war started because he played the game poorly, and because Joffrey is a shit.

[Miriel]

As someone who hasn't read the books, the scene where Cat takes Tyrion into custody in the show did NOT play out like a stupid move. That's not how the scene read and I'm pretty sure it wasn't the intention to even try and portray that moment as being stupid.

It came across like a move of desperation and circumstances. It's not her fault that she didn't know that Tyrion is the only sane person in his family. There she is, hiding about and Tyrion (as delightful as he is to the audience) comes strutting about in his rather pompous manner and this is the guy she believes to be an attempted child murderer. Any person without the benefit of being an omniscient viewer might have reacted the same way she did. On the flip side, I can't think of anyone who would have behaved as stupidly as Ned did.



I really have no idea why people are so hellbent on blaming Catelyn for something she had nothing to do with.
My theory is that it's cause Cat doesn't have a dick and many of the other stupid stupid characters do and that somehow makes them less stupid than Cat.

[Shlup]

It's not a terrible theory. Sansa, Dany, and Cat always get trashed as being stupid, while pretty much everyone else seems to get a pass. I tend to believe it's just because Catelyn taking Tyrion into custody was when shit started to hit the fan, and because no one wants to think poorly of their beloved Ned. But, you're right, it really bugs me that those three ladies are shit all over all the time, when they're no better or worse than any other character.

[Miriel]

I only read about Game of Thrones on two sites, here and on Ohnotheydidnt. Here, Cat gets tit on all the time. On ONTD, among the hundreds of comments I've seen, only a handful of people have ever mentioned disliking her in the show or in the books and most people seem to like her very much. ONTD's primarily made up of female posters, like 90% female. I cringe to think of what the hyper misogynistic Reddit people might think of Cat. Based on the show alone, I've liked Cat very much. I thought most of her decisions and actions seem the most normal out of the whole lot of them. Maybe that doesn't mean a ton since so many of the characters are off on one extreme or the other. But still, she makes sense to me. The only thing I don't like about her is her whole honor thing, which is the same thing that annoyed me about Ned and now Rob. Get off your high horses and do some real dirty work. Or you will all LOSE.

Speaking of dumbass decisions, how about Rob's great idea to send Mr. Not-Quite-Right-in-the-Head Greyjoy back to his family. Real smart plan that was.

Also, I wonder if we'll ever get any full frontal of the main male cast. Any chance Jaime gets buck naked in the books? The way things are going, it seems super unlikely. Even Rome and True Blood give us more male eyecandy than this show, it's totally a let down.

[Shlup]

The Game of Thrones subreddit tends not to be too bad. Yeah, Cat and Sansa and Dany get a lot of hate, but there's also a lot of people that defend them. Probably because most of the people that bother to subscribe to that subreddit cherish the books so hard that they're going to have a long think before declaring a character that their beloved GRRM has written as stupid. I see anti-Cat/Sansa/Dany posts often, but when I defend them I get lots of upvotes and no one being a dick to me, which is rare for Reddit. If I were to defend them in, say r/funny or one of the general subreddits, there's a lot more dickery there.

I also have my fingers crossed for some Jaime nudity. If Nikolaj Coster-Waldau was my twin I would be all about incest.

[Rantz]

Also, I wonder if we'll ever get any full frontal of the main male cast. Any chance Jaime gets buck naked in the books? The way things are going, it seems super unlikely. Even Rome and True Blood give us more male eyecandy than this show, it's totally a let down.

Well, Tyrion spreads his legs at one point in the books to reveal something "crooked, red and veiny", I think was the description. Sooo... there's that.

[Freya]

Excuse me, ladies. I do not just hate Cat or dany or sansa because they are female. That's a very broad statement to make. I also hate Jon, Robb, Theon (of course) and a little bit of dislike for Bran but he's a child so I'll give him that. In fact, I think most the characters make ridiculously stupid moves but just because they all make them doesn't mean that one character is abdicated of their stupid moves as well. You're defending one stupid move by throwing out more stupid moves, claiming that people are pointing out hers because she's a female and they have hardons for guys (paraphrasing, of course). Just because others make stupid moves, doesn't mean that hers are any less stupid. Stupid. (had to say it one more time)

The way they handled Jaime's release in the show was less of an impact and made less sense than her grief stricken actions in the book. AKA they made it more of a stupid move than it already was. Which is where this recent discussion came from anyway.

I will admit I like her more in the show than the books and even then I've only read the first three books so far so I'm not all knowing of the series (YET working on it).

I do agree though, there needs to be more fan service to the ladies. The guys get like 4 boobs per episode. We get shirtless Gendry every now and then. WHICH I AM PERFECTLY FINE WITH.

[Shlup]

I can't speak for Miriel, but I wasn't referring to you specifically--it just seems, in general, like people hate those three but forgive all the dumb things all the male characters do. Every character doing stupid things is what makes them realistic and the series unpredictable--the flawed decisions and the consequences that follow are what make the series good.

I'm glad that we all agree about more fan service for the ladies, at least.

[Del Murder]

Based on the information Cat had at the time, Tyrion was the one responsible for Bran's attempted murder. If she is presented with a situation where she can arrest her son's assailant then it makes sense she would take it. It's only later proven that it was a foolish move.

Who was the one who sent that assassin after Bran? Amanda said in an earlier post that it was Joffrey but that doesn't make sense because he was 12 at the time and also probably wasn't aware of his parents' incest and/or why Bran was being targeted. It bugs me that this was never fully resolved. FYI I did read Game of Thrones and I'm halfway through Clash of Kings and it hasn't been addressed fully by that point.

[Jinx]

Also, I wonder if we'll ever get any full frontal of the main male cast. Any chance Jaime gets buck naked in the books? The way things are going, it seems super unlikely. Even Rome and True Blood give us more male eyecandy than this show, it's totally a let down.

Well, Tyrion spreads his legs at one point in the books to reveal something "crooked, red and veiny", I think was the description. Sooo... there's that.

It comes out of a mound of blonde curls, as well.

Also, shirtless Gendry makes me happy.

As for the assassin sent after Bran it does say in the book that Joffrey was the one who sent him after Bran. There's so much information coming at you, so I can't 100% remember, but...I think it was said that he already knew he was an incest baby? Or something. Hell, I don't know. But after they reveal it was Joffrey, it gets stated many times in the Jaime/Cersei chapters.

[Psychotic]

Yes, arresting Tyrion was smurfing stupid. Why? Well, why the smurf did she arrest him? What evidence did she have that Tyrion killed him? Littlefinger - a man who specifically says he can and should not be trusted - tells her that it is Tyrion's dagger. That is it. Littlefinger, aka the creepy guy who has tried to bone her for her entire life. Never mind that there is no motive whatsoever for Tyrion wanting a young boy killed, never mind that he would be incredibly stupid to use a dagger that is publically known to be his, nope, it's him! Get him! That is what is smurfing stupid.

Also the war was already in motion before Ned was killed. The Lannisters wanted to capture Ned in revenge, so they sent the Mountain to go and rape the riverlands without a banner, leaving dead fish everywhere as a message. The idea was for Noble Ned, Hand of the King, to go and try to sort the Mountain out and get captured and traded for Tyrion. But then Jaime crippled Ned like an idiot and Ned couldn't go, so he sent Beric Dondarrion instead. So yeah, capturing Tyrion started a war.

also sexism? maybe you are the sexists, defending cat and panning ned! Works both ways, you disgusting smurfing female supremacists gtfo my forum!!!! Seriously now, sounds to me like the people with gender equality issues are the ones who think you have to balance out criticising a female character by having to criticise a male one at the same time. FINE, NED STARK IS ALSO DUMB, PROBABLY DUMBER THAN CAT ACTUALLY. AM I FREE TO GO SEXISM POLICE?

[Cuchulainn]

Im pretty sure it wasn't Jaime who sent the catspaw to finish Bran off. I won't say who it was though.

Every action Cat does is self serving. She ignores the bigger picture, doesnt think rationally & is a moron. I understand people defending Dany, I even understand the defence of Sansa, she's a child for smurf sake, but Cat? There is no defence. From her treatment of Jon, to the idiotic belief that someone would hand a catspaw their own knife to secretly kill someone, then arrest that person. Then to other idiotic things i dont want to say as i'm not sure what has and what as not transpired on HBO. She has, time & again, proved herself to be the biggest idiot in the book. Bearing in mind these books also contain patchface & Moonboy.


@Bunny, I suppose saying she CAUSED a war might be harsh but it certainly ignited tit when she took Tyrion.

Plenty of peoples stupidities annoy me in the books. From Dany to Stannis, to Davos to Theon etc even to everyones favorite Tyrion. They've all done tit that's made me say; 'You smurfing idiot'. However not in every chapter....with Jon, Cat & Cersei that happens....EVERY chapter.

If you want to make this an US Vs Them feminist issue knock yourself out.


Also. Tyrion is a paedophile. Discuss

[Miriel]

How are the action of Cat any more self-serving than anyone else?

Also, if my husband boned another woman and brought home that kid to live in our home, I would divorce the dumbass husband. But if that weren't an option as it seemingly wasn't an option for Cat, I would absolutely hate that child. It's not the nicest reaction and maybe someone with more forgiveness wouldn't have taken out their hurt on an innocent kid, but it's an understandable reaction. Someone who ended up being nice to the kid would be an absolutely remarkable and singular person. Cat reacted the same way most women in the same circumstance might have reacted.

Female characters in general get much more criticism than their male counterparts. It's always been like this. Look at any show. Look at the idiotic stuff Dr. House does while still maintaining his likability, versus the idiotic stuff some of his female coworkers have done which have caused the fandom to rain down vitriol on those characters. I'm not immune from it either. Jack was just as dumb as Kate on Lost, but people still hated Kate more (myself included).

Male characters have a longer leash to be stupid and get away with it than female characters.


Yes, arresting Tyrion was smurfing stupid. Why? Well, why the smurf did she arrest him? What evidence did she have that Tyrion killed him? Littlefinger - a man who specifically says he can and should not be trusted - tells her that it is Tyrion's dagger. That is it. Littlefinger, aka the creepy guy who has tried to bone her for her entire life. Never mind that there is no motive whatsoever for Tyrion wanting a young boy killed, never mind that he would be incredibly stupid to use a dagger that is publically known to be his, nope, it's him! Get him! That is what is smurfing stupid.

Littlefinger never told Cat not to trust him, he told that to Ned. To Cat, it seemed like he presented a figure of trust and friendship. And Tyrion is a Lannister, and might have sent an assassin just to protect the family name. Who knows with that smurfed up family. I mean, it wasn't even made clear to the audience who ACTUALLY ordered the hit, so Cat making an impulsive decision at that moment wasn't any more stupid than anything anyone else has done. I think her decision was not thought out. But I think she thought she was in between a rock and a hard place. How else should that scene have played out? "Er... yeah, can you not tell anyone you saw me here? I'm just gonna leave now..."

[Freya]

Tensions are high in here with people thinking cat is not stupid so here have a Gendry Gif

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3kvrk2F7f1r3hz9go2_250.gif

You know what, I don't think that was enough.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3kvrk2F7f1r3hz9go5_250.gif

He looks so hurt when she said that :( Like she doesn't need gendry. EVERYONE NEEDS GENDRY

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4hp23N0By1qfs0hxo1_250.gif

[Jinx]

Omg Chris from Skins, I will always love you.

[Bunny]

I cringe to think of what the hyper misogynistic Reddit people might think of Cat.


This requires explaination. I have very rarely saw a post that came even close to something that could be considered hyper misogynistic, or even slightly misogynistic. Maybe if you go to r/beatingwomen or some bullshit reddit like that, but that is a relatively small population of Reddit and you have to expect misogyny from people like that. But whatever, small potatoes.


The problem with Catelyn's decisions are that they are personal and inclusive, not necessarily that they are dumb. She is one of the few major characters, and there are others, that make choices and decisions that directly or indirectly effect a large portion of the characters. Letting Jaime go in hopes of getting her children back (when she has no reason to believe this will actually work because the "Lannister's always pay their debts" line is bullshit: Lannister's always pay their debts when it behooves them to pay their debts). Capturing Tyrion with as little information as she did, while not necessarily a problem in and of itself, is another one of these. The biggest problem with her capture of Tyrion is that she refused to listen to him when he provided logical information to her that disputed what she already believed. Her mind was so made up that Tyrion tried to kill Bran that she refused to listen to anyone saying otherwise. Her decisions, while they did not directly cause the war, had more influence over the dominoes that fell than most other characters did.


Robb's decision to send Theon back to his family was made out of trust and familial love for the boy he considered his best friend and someone he had known since he was a little boy. He grew up with this guy and did not think he would have betrayed him. In hindsight, yeah he probably regrets the decision but he did not know that Theon would betray him at the time because he had no information to the contrary. A stupid decision? Completely, but he didn't have the information that the audience had so you can't really blame him for trusting someone he loved.


Sansa is a stupid girl but eventually grows into a semi-intelligent woman who understands what her actions have done and regrets them. If you dispute this, you are clearly not reading the same books as everyone else. She even states herself that she does not care at all about politics, she just wants to live in a fairy tale world with her lovely prince. Even though that prince has proven, time in again, to be a sadistic little :bou::bou::bou::bou:. She grows out of this after Ned is put to death and starts to realize that fairy tales aren't exactly real and that Joffrey is very much not Prince Charming. I go to several forums that are dedicated to the series and everyone's opinions on Sansa are about the same: an idiot to begin with, but she eventually gets wise to the world.


Dany, like Cat, refuses to listen to reasonable suggestions around her. She also does not understand how politics work. This is mostly a reflection on how she grew up. She was, esssentially, raised on the run by an idiot who thought his name meant everything. She grew up thinking that her Targaryen blood meant she was above everyone else and that people would love her simply because of who she was. Other, much wiser people, understand that this may not be the case and so suggest she do things differently. She rebukes them because she believes with all her being that she only needs to show up and say "Sup, Aegon was my daddy." and people will line up in droves to be members of her ever-increasing army of dragony goodness. She eventually grows out of this and starts to see the logic behind her actions, although she is still a stubborn little girl from time to time. Her current story, in the show and in the books, is necessararily boring because it impacts her eventual growth that much more.


Ned was not stupid. He was honorable. There is a difference and it is pretty significant. He made stupid decisions because he made the mistake of everyone being just as honorable as he was. He thought that everyone wanted what was good for the kingdom, even if it wasn't necessarily good for specific people. He died because he refused to play the game of politics that everyone else was playing. Yea, he was a bit dumb, but only so far as he refused to see reason.


Catelyn's actions are, from a motherly point of view, very understandable and completley reasonable. However, that does not mean they are smart. The biggest problem with Catelyn isn't that she is making stupid decisions, it's that she refuses to see why the decisions are stupid. LIke I said, she has absolutely NO reason to believe that the Lannister's would free Sansa and Arya (since she doesn't know Arya isn't in King's Landing). As long as Robb has Jaime as his captive, his sisters are completely safe. The Lannister's would absolutely not harm Sansa and Arya if they knew that harm would come to their favored son. Catelyn not only ruins this by letting him go, but she refuses to understand why letting him go was such a bad decision. She isn't dumb because she makes stupid decisions because, yes, all of the characters make stupid decisions. What sets her apart from most of the cast is that she refuses to acknowledge why her decisions might be stupid.

Also calling everything sexist or misogynistic is dumb. Just because dudes don't get naked on the screen does not mean the creators of the show are blatantly sexist. It just means that dudes aren't getting naked on the screen as much.

[Miriel]

This requires explaination. I have very rarely saw a post that came even close to something that could be considered hyper misogynistic, or even slightly misogynistic. Maybe if you go to r/beatingwomen or some bulltit reddit like that, but that is a relatively small population of Reddit and you have to expect misogyny from people like that. But whatever, small potatoes.


One of the first threads I explored while checking out Reddit a few weeks ago was about ex-girlfriends/boyfriends and in it, there was a bunch of dudes complaining about men's rights. Like, seriously. Men don't have enough rights. I talked to a few people who frequent reddit (since I don't) and they said this is a thing. People there actually bitch about men's rights like it's a real issue. Creeped. Me. Out.


Also calling everything sexist or misogynistic is dumb. Just because dudes don't get naked on the screen does not mean the creators of the show are blatantly sexist. It just means that dudes aren't getting naked on the screen as much.
And it tires me out all the time that people so fiercely refuse to acknowledge how prevalent sexism is. Everyone is sexist to a degree (and also racist). Myself included. Is it really that hard to see in oneself? How much you let it influence you obviously depends on the person and it's not like I said that's the ONLY reason people might like or dislike characters.

Just that in my theory, female characters in hundreds of tv shows or movies generally are given much less latitude for behaving badly before they lose popularity versus male characters. And the disproportionate amount of dislike for Cat seems at least in part, due to the fact that it's a woman making poor choices versus a man. For all I know, people dislike her equally as much as anyone else, but it doesn't get talked about as much now does it?

And yeah, there are things about Game of Thrones that's sexist, just like in pretty much every show that has ever existed. And in every human mind that's ever existed. There is a gratuitous amount of female nudity in this show. Like, more than most HBO shows and that's saying something. And very little male nudity. And again, this is true for a LOT of media. Females get naked, men don't. Look at fashion magazines, movies, music videos, etc. Men in clothes, females semi-nude. Terry Richardson pretty much ONLY shoots photos where the girl is partially dressed and the guy is fully clothed. That's supposed to just be how things are? As if it's totally random? Nah.

It also seems silly for a girl to be COMPLETELY naked while the guy only has a shirt off in a sex scene. That's not how it would go down in real life. Also, the actor has been naked in other stuff before, so it's not like he has a problem with it. Somewhere, someone made the decision to have a naked girl jump on a guy with half is clothes still in tact. They might have made that decision for 10 different reasons, but at least one of the factors (in my opinion) had to have been that they just don't see the need for male nudity as much as female.

And I don't know how it is in the books, but in the show, it seemed to me that Cat realized what a horrid mistake it was to bring Tyrion to her sister. Maybe she didn't regret the arrest itself, but it sure seemed like she regretted bringing him to nutso sister lady. And she didn't seem all that pompous and unrepenting in her scene with Rob. She seemed... sad.

I have no idea how it is in the books, although I've heard more than one person say that Cat is one of their favorite characters in the book, but she could be absolutely TERRIBLE. But an episode airs, and then people here bitch about Cat and I'm like, what? What did she do that was so much worse than anyone else? She seems to me like one of the less offensive people on the show.

[Jinx]

I for one, am against the appalling lack of Robb's penis in this show.


SEXISM!

[Bunny]

This requires explaination. I have very rarely saw a post that came even close to something that could be considered hyper misogynistic, or even slightly misogynistic. Maybe if you go to r/beatingwomen or some bulltit reddit like that, but that is a relatively small population of Reddit and you have to expect misogyny from people like that. But whatever, small potatoes.


One of the first threads I explored while checking out Reddit a few weeks ago was about ex-girlfriends/boyfriends and in it, there was a bunch of dudes complaining about men's rights. Like, seriously. Men don't have enough rights. I talked to a few people who frequent reddit (since I don't) and they said this is a thing. People there actually bitch about men's rights like it's a real issue. Creeped. Me. Out.

This right here? Sexism. Just because the issue of men's rights isn't as prevalent of a problem as women's rights does not mean that it is not an issue. There are plenty of things that men get screwed on simply for being men and being "less fit" than a woman is. Yes, women have it tougher. I am not arguing that, but saying that men have no right to complain about their perceived lack of rights in certain areas is ludicious.

Also calling the whole of Reddit hyper misogynistic based on, by your own admission, one or two threads is ignorant. I frequent Reddit and I know a lot of other people that do the same and very rarely do any of us run into blatant sexism.


Also calling everything sexist or misogynistic is dumb. Just because dudes don't get naked on the screen does not mean the creators of the show are blatantly sexist. It just means that dudes aren't getting naked on the screen as much.
And it tires me out all the time that people so fiercely refuse to acknowledge how prevalent sexism is. Everyone is sexist to a degree (and also racist). Myself included. Is it really that hard to see in oneself? How much you let it influence you obviously depends on the person and it's not like I said that's the ONLY reason people might like or dislike characters.[/quote]

I do not refuse to acknowledge that sexist is extremely prevalent. I refuse to acknowledge people, like yourself, who throw the term sexism out left and right without an clear grasp of what the problem with it is. The lack of male nudity in Game of Thrones? Not sexist. The target audience of Game of Thrones, like most other mainstream television shows, is 18-35 year old men. Appealing to your core audience is not sexism, it's business. Hatred of Catelyn? Not sexist. People do not hate Catelyn because she lacks a dick (although some certainly do, but I would wager that the number is relatively small). People hate Catelyn because of the reasons I outlined in my previous post, as well as other reasons. Disliking a character who happens to be female is not sexist unless you hate that person solely for being a woman.


And yeah, there are things about Game of Thrones that's sexist, just like in pretty much every show that has ever existed. And in every human mind that's ever existed. There is a gratuitous amount of female nudity in this show. Like, more than most HBO shows and that's saying something. And very little male nudity. And again, this is true for a LOT of media. Females get naked, men don't. Look at fashion magazines, movies, music videos, etc. Men in clothes, females semi-nude. Terry Richardson pretty much ONLY shoots photos where the girl is partially dressed and the guy is fully clothed. That's supposed to just be how things are? As if it's totally random? Nah.

Why are we looking at fashion magazines, music videos, and any other form of media? This is a thread about Game of Thrones specifically and a discussion about perceived sexism in Game of Thrones. Anything else is largely irrelevant. If you want to address the problems of sexism in other media you can, but it has no real bearing on the current conversation at all. And regardless of that fact, the majority of television shows that feature women half-naked or fully naked are those shows that are aimed, again, at an audience mostly comprised of 18-35 year old men. A large portion of television viewers are of this age group. Shows, movies, etc that are aimed directly at female groups do not feature half-naked or fully-naked women. They feature buff men without shirts because that is what works. Are we to pretend that this is not sexist based on your own preceived criticism? That argument, much like yours, is half-hearted and stupid but the two go hand-in-hand.


And I don't know how it is in the books, but in the show, it seemed to me that Cat realized what a horrid mistake it was to bring Tyrion to her sister. Maybe she didn't regret the arrest itself, but it sure seemed like she regretted bringing him to nutso sister lady. And she didn't seem all that pompous and unrepenting in her scene with Rob. She seemed... sad.

The only reason she showed regret, at least from my understanding, is because her sister wasn't doing exactly what she wanted her to do. Lysa gave Tyrion an out and Catelyn did not want him to have one. He wanted him to be held responsible for crimes that Catelyn thought he committed even though she did not have any realistic proof that he did them.

I'm not saying that sexism in media is a non-issue and should be ignored, by the way. It is a massive issue and should be addressed to the best of our abilities. But calling everything sexist simply because it does not agree with your world view while completely dismissing other types of sexism that exist for the same reasons? That's not the way to get rid of the bulk of sexism.

[Miriel]

You must have an incredibly narrow definition of what sexism is. I've never seen anything wrong with calling out sexism and racism, even though people get all uppity about it. It's a reality. Deal with it. Lots of things are sexist. They won't hurt your livelihood or otherwise ruin your day, but it's still sexist.

Men bitching about how men have it so hard in this world is like Christians bitching about being persecuted. It just makes my eyes roll. Oh boo hoo, you have it so hard.

I bring up the other examples because it's such a ridiculous notion that media in all it's forms has plenty of instances of sexism and yet game of thrones is immune? As if.

Yeah there's sexism, I still watch and for the most part enjoy the show.

Admitting that there's sexism doesn't somehow invalidate the whole thing. Gratuitous female nudity in the presence of clothed men IS a depiction of women with sexist overtones. It's unimaginable to me that someone can't see that.

EDIT: I just want to add that you can dislike Cat all you want, and you obviously have your own reasons for having that dislike. It's not like anyone implied that you can't dislike a female character for any reason other than femaleness.

Just that to me, the dislike of Cat in this thread has always seemed excessive to what we've seen on the show. And has repeatedly been brought up. I can only speculate on the reason why, that speculation being what I keep repeating myself. It's much easier for audiences to dislike female characters than male characters and this has always been true.

[Raistlin]

Let's break this down.

I somewhat agree with Miriel and Del's implication that the actual arrest itself was not unforgivably stupid. Stupid, yes, but given Cat's fears, a momentary stupid overreaction is not unsympathetic (of course, such a rationalization is inconsistent with Cat stubbornly sticking to her decision for days/weeks afterward). What is so mind-bogglingly stupid about the decision was that she was convinced of Tyrion's guilt in the first place. This is baseless (and I recognize that the real blame is on Martin). Her only evidence is the fact that Tyrion possessed the knife at some point in the past (and based on Cat's trust of Littlefinger, I will accept this as a reasonable belief). And it wasn't Tyrion's prized knife that he carried around with him everywhere, but a knife that was seen with him only when he had just won it on a bet. That is it. There's no remotely reasonable way to twist that into serious evidence of Tyrion's guilt. Because Cat held this absolute conviction for weeks, despite all the contrary evidence (Tyrion's own arguments and the fact that Tyrion saved her life on the trip to his "trial"), her actions were hopelessly stupid.

Not only was the belief stupid, but thoughtlessly sticking with the arrest and keeping Tyrion was additionally stupid, as her own husband and daughters were in King's Landing. What did she think would be the response? There's no evidence that she even considered this problem.

Lastly, her release of Jaime Lannister. Again, overwhelmingly stupid. Not because she is justifiably terrified for her daughters' safety, but because of her absolutely deluded conviction that telling Brienne to take him to King's Landing alone (or with another person, as in the books) would accomplish anything at all for her daughters. She was not negotiating a transfer of prisoners, but simply giving away a very importantly political and military prisoner on the hope and prayer that the Lannisters will take kindly upon this gesture and stupidly release their own very important political prisoners (accepting the belief that Arya is still in King's Landing as reasonable).

On the subject of Sansa, she was an infuriating brat in the first book/season, but she was like 12 and indoctrinated with the message that she needs to be a good, obedient little princess. Not every little girl can be as badass as Arya. Sansa also becomes a very sympathetic character immediately upon having to deal with Joffrey.

I don't see how Ned Stark got even the slightest pass. There's a smurfing Stupid Ned Stark meme (http://www.buzzfeed.com/donnad/introducing-stupid-ned-stark), for crying out loud. I do think the above two decisions of Cat's were more absurdly irrational than just about anything Ned did, but Ned was clearly so puffed up on his own honor that he was apparently incapable of even contemplating that people can be bad. His level of oblivious delusion did make him fitting match for Catelyn.

[Miriel]

Ned Stark was dumb as rocks, but I still love him as a character. Joffrey is an evil little prick, but again, I think he's a great character. The actor is hilariously great in the role.

The point with Cat is that she makes dumb decisions like anyone else and people here seem to just loathe her character. Shlup and I were just pondering why that might be the case. If Ned Stark had been the one who had done the same things Cat did, I think people would still like him as a character. Oh that Ned! Bless his dumb little heart. Right?

But Cat? Oh no, she's "most idiotic annoying smurfer". Yeah.

[Bunny]

You must have an incredibly narrow definition of what sexism is. I've never seen anything wrong with calling out sexism and racism, even though people get all uppity about it. It's a reality. Deal with it. Lots of things are sexist. They won't hurt your livelihood or otherwise ruin your day, but it's still sexist.

Men bitching about how men have it so hard in this world is like Christians bitching about being persecuted. It just makes my eyes roll. Oh boo hoo, you have it so hard.

I bring up the other examples because it's such a ridiculous notion that media in all it's forms has plenty of instances of sexism and yet game of thrones is immune? As if.

Yeah there's sexism, I still watch and for the most part enjoy the show.

Admitting that there's sexism doesn't somehow invalidate the whole thing. Gratuitous female nudity in the presence of clothed men IS a depiction of women with sexist overtones. It's unimaginable to me that someone can't see that.

Then please, define sexism for me. Because, according to what you have posted in this thread previously, women are the only ones that can justifiably be victims of sexism. Your posts indicate this and, I am sure based on this, your actual thought process is based on this. I do not have a problem with calling out sexism, racism, or any other type of racism. My issue lies with calling ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING that you do not agree with, or that seems slightly skewed in one direction, sexist or racist. You stated that the lack of male nudity in this show is sexism. How is that sexist? It's HBO addressing their core demographic.


Men bitching about how hard they have it in this world is nothing like Christians bitching about being persecuted and to dismiss it as such is a gross oversight on your part. This is one of the problems I have with sexism, and by extension, some versions of feminism. Men can be victims of sexism just like women can and not addressing this problem is yet another form of sexism. Just because women might have it more difficult in some ways does not mean that they have the market on being victims of sexist behavior. Give me a smurfing break.

I never said Game of Thrones is immune to sexism. I simply stated that what people are calling sexism isn't sexist, or that you aren't providing enough reasons as to WHY it is sexist. Again, a lack of male nudity in comparison to female nudity is not sexist in and of itself. I'm sorry if you disagree with that because I do not understand how you can view it that way.

If you accuse of me having an incredibly narrow definition of what sexism is, I'm going to go ahead and say that you have too broad of a definition of sexism, or have an equally as narrow defintion that ignores several instances of sexist behavior. Regardless, I don't think this conversation is going to get anywhere and so I'm going to stop after this post and get back to talking about my likes and dislikes of Game of Thrones. Feel free to continue.

[Miriel]

You can google sexual objectification and do your own research on sexism. There's actually been quite a bit written about the sexual objectification of women on Game of Thrones. A quick google search should yield plenty of results.

And even though I stand by my comments that the naked women, clothed men syndrome is sexist, I'm pretty sure me and ahem, "Tifa's Boobs" were shouting sexism mostly because we just want to see peen.

I'll just say that some of us in this thread are obviously equal opportunity objectifier and if you're not, then screw you.

[Jinx]

You can google sexual objectification and do your own research on sexism. There's actually been quite a bit written about the sexual objectification of women on Game of Thrones. A quick google search should yield plenty of results.

And even though I stand by my comments that the naked women, clothed men syndrome is sexist, I'm pretty sure me and ahem, "Tifa's Boobs" were shouting sexism mostly because we just want to see peen.

I'll just say that some of us in this thread are obviously equal opportunity objectifier and if you're not, then screw you.

I'm equal opportunist where Robb's peep is concerned.

[Shlup]

These posts are starting to get way too long for me to focus on right now, but I wanted to put it out there that I am always really hesitant to play the sexism card... I do it very, very, very rarely... but after a couple of years of seeing "Cat/Dany/Sansa is such a stupid bitch! I love [insert male character here, whose decisions have been no better]!" and, like Miriel said, it's not that way in female-domianted fan communities... it becomes hard to ignore.



I cringe to think of what the hyper misogynistic Reddit people might think of Cat.
This requires explaination. I have very rarely saw a post that came even close to something that could be considered hyper misogynistic, or even slightly misogynistic. Maybe if you go to r/beatingwomen or some bullshit reddit like that, but that is a relatively small population of Reddit and you have to expect misogyny from people like that. But whatever, small potatoes.
It is most definitively not a small population, or at least not small enough. I had to change my reddit username because my original username hinted that I was female and I was sick to death of being harassed. You don't have to go as far as /r/beatingwomen to get into crazy territory. /r/mensrights gets cringe-worthy pretty quickly.

[Freya]

I am addicted to the internet and I don't see much sexism on reddit. I mean I'll see the "dat ass!" comments on pictures or "make me a sammich" posts occasionally but I don't really think of those as sexism and more as jokes. there is a whole thread going on right now that's on the hot page with like 1000 replies about how men objectify and treat women in their daily lives and the men of the thread going "oh snap What dicks" and being nothing but respectful. The /r/gameofthrones is pretty good though about any of it. In fact they remove things that objectify the actors. Because there was a totally hot set of gifs up of jaqen and then later I noticed they removed it because of that reason. Which was sad because I hadn't got to save them or anything and I was too lazy to look in my history.

Sansa gets the hate because she was a brat. And most everyone agrees she changes and grows.

Dany gets the hate because she was an entitled brat. And most everyone agrees she's changing and growing.

Cat gets the hate because well I don't want to have to explain again what many of us have explained already.

Claiming that disliking female characters because they are female is silly. I am female and I just dislike Cat because I dislike her. Making such a broad statement that everyone doesn't like them because they are female is, again, silly. Most every comment I have ever seen about people disliking Cat are for the same reasons I said earlier, that Bunny, Wes, Cuch all said. And it's not about the male characters. That's irrelevant that they may like one character and dislike another. Male or female. The fact is, people dislike her because of reasons we've detailed. If you don't agree well alright but it's no reason to put the sexism card into it.

It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people claim people dislike others because of their gender or claim that I personally dislike them because she's another female and as a girl, I hate other girls. No. I hate stupidity. I don't care what gender you are. You could be an android that has no gender, if you act stupid (you wouldn't cause come on ROBOT) i'm still going to dislike you. Tossing in the gender thing is unnecessary and usually just a way for people to try to give their point more support. Nothing about what any of us said about cat had anything to do with her gender. It all had something to do with her actions and reactions. She also just happens to be female.

So lets back away from that whole sexism nonsense in regards to dislike for Cat.

[Jinx]

Yeah, Freya tells me all the time I'm super girly and I make her sick, but she still loves me.

[Shlup]

Reddit is not dominated by misogynists. It's a huge, diverse community. There is enough of them, though, that a few will pop up everywhere you look, and it's very irritating. I agree that /r/gameofthrones really isn't bad in that regard.

It's definitely a pet peeve of mine when people play the sexism card, but that doesn't mean gender discrimination is never an issue. People are more forgiving of the faults of male characters than they are female characters. You're right, their choices don't have to do with them being female--peoples' inability to forgive their bad decisions while easily forgiving the bad decisions of other characters, though... seems to create a pattern.

I'm not going to push it, though, because I hate accusing people of sexism. And I, at least, am not accusing anyone individually of being sexist--it's just a general overtone, based on dozens and dozens of people declaring they hate the female characters (excluding Arya, who's the most masculine of the female characters), yet I almost never see anyone hate the male characters. Cat/Sansa/Dany/Cersei get called stupid bitches all the time. Yes, there are people that will defend them, but there's a definite noticeable pattern between which characters are forgiven for their bad decisions and which aren't, and I'm not going to deny that I see a pattern when that pattern keeps popping up over and over and over again. If it were just Cat, then maybe, but it's like every female character short of Arya!

Aaaanyway... I don't like the way this is going so... I forgive all of the characters for their decisions that didn't turn out well. There's no character I dislike, and I'm super duper excited for the next two episodes. Though what I'm really excited for is next season. Though I hear they're splitting the events from the next book into two seasons, which might mean it's season four that's going to have lots of my favorite things. Stupid ten episodes a year...

[Jinx]

I've said a hundred times I hate Jon.

[Shlup]

You seem to really think that any one example that doesn't fit into my very generalized observations invalidates my opinion. That's not how things work.

[Cuchulainn]

Why can't I hate Cat & Cersei without being labelled a sexist? You smurfing women are all twats.

[Shlup]

You must hate one dude. I'll let you pick. Joffrey doesn't count.

[Cuchulainn]

I already did pick. Jon Snow annoys the sweet living hell out of me to the point where reading about the wall fills me with dread not knowing what moronic stubborn bulltit he'll pull next. (dance with dragons spoiler)I mean who sends all his allies away & leaves himself surrounded by doubters who hate what you're doing? I'm glad he stabbed the smurf up. Anyway, why is Joffrey unacceptable? Cersei is equally abhorant and I listed her.

It's not our fault that the ratio of annoying smurfers written by George falls heavily on the side of the titted variety of human. Take that up with Mr Martin.

[DK]

Keep in mind that I haven't watched any of the second series yet and probably will not until it's completed, but I'm just wondering if anyone arguing that the reason people are hating on Sansa, Cat etc etc is because of sexism are considering the fact that the TV show is based on a 16 year old series of 5 or 6 books depending on where you live, and that the show itself has barely scratched the surface of what has happened in the story so far. As well as the fact that it's obviously limited in the depth it can go by the nature of television in comparison to books. I have no doubt that there are people in the community who are hatin' simply because the characters are women, there are always going to be some people that look at this kind of thing with a sexist nature.

But I'm also aware of the fact that there are probably a lot of people out there who have had many, many years with the story/characters and have way more knowledge of what the characters do in the future than has been shown in the TV series already and there's no way that's not going to influence people's attitudes to the characters. For me, my least favourite character in the series is Dany. It's not because she is a woman, it's because she is an utterly useless moron. To anyone who hasn't read the books that kind of statement may seem fairly harsh, to those who have, even if they like Dany or not they at least know enough to know where I'm coming from and am not just firing off vitriol because she's a woman.


based on dozens and dozens of people declaring they hate the female characters (excluding Arya, who's the most masculine of the female characters)

Well I can't speak for the masses but imho Cersei, Sansa and Dany are all utterly dire. Cersei is vile, and has always been written that way by Martin. Any hatred flung her way is more than deserved imho :colbert: Dany i'm not going to go into again, she is just the worst person in the whole story and I can't go into it without spoiling a lot of stuff. Sansa is just dumb. She is. She is dumb. Cat I don't have any issues with near as much as those three but she certainly has done some daft things.

That being said, and again bare in mind I haven't seen the second series yet so not sure who all else is involved yet but Cersei, Sansa, Dany, Cat and Arya are not the only female characters in the story. Breine of Tarth, Melisandre, Ygritte, Asha, Margaery Tyrell and so on. AFAIK most people love these characters. Freed is more into the community than I am so I guess he'd know better, but I've certainly never heard anything about them being tit on the way Cersei and the rest do, and I'm pretty sure that's because they aren't assholes and smurfups like the other ones are.

[Psychotic]

My view is that anybody who thinks my opinion that cat is stupid is gender motivated is actually dumber than cat (AND THAT IS P FUCKING DUMB) :smug:

Also 100% agreed with Dan. Those are some pretty god damn smart women right there too. I don't know if we're going to see her in the TV show, but if and when we do, Margaery's grandmother is one of the most intelligent people in the entire book series imho.

[Miriel]

Some of you just suck at reading comprehension.

Did anyone say that the reason, the only reason, or even the primary reason why people dislike a specific character is because of sex?

NO.

We said that female characters seem to get hate disproportionate to their actions than their male counterparts, despite a tremendous amount of stupidity all around. Like I said, Ned is very very dumb, but we all still like him. This could be cause he's also Boromir and Boromir is awwwesome. But still. Blond dude from the first season was evil but still a great character. That's the point. You might hate Cat, but I don't see many people here arguing that she's still a neat character. Whereas in the other female community I visit, people really really like her as a character, even if she makes dumb decisions. It's not that Cat doesn't have qualities that legitimately make her unlikable to some people, it's that those characteristics that make her unlikable seem more amplified and ranted about than a male character with lots of unlikable characteristics. Sure you can give reason after reason why you hate a character, but I think you would be incredibly mistaken if you think that gender doesn't play at least a small role in your perception. I mean hell, I know for a FACT that it influences me.

All things equal, women will be given less room to act like a smurfing idiot and still be liked, rather than a guy.

If you honestly believe that a male character who did the exact same things that Cat did would have garnered the exact same number of people disliking the character and voicing their dislike, then I think you're absurdly lacking in self-awareness. Like, really? You REALLY don't think that unlikable female characters are bitched about WAY more than male characters?

Sheesh, this is all so beside the point. You can all keep bitching about how much you hate Cat and how sexist overtones never ever ever enter into your perceptions, EVEERRRR. I DON'T CARE.

Aside from the super slow pacing of the episodes, I am for the most part enjoying the season. I think Varys is my fav.

[Psychotic]

You REALLY don't think that unlikable female characters are bitched about WAY more than male characters?two words: theon greyjoy

imho miriel your views have been more sexist than anyone else in this thread.

[Shlup]

Theon's a villain. You're not supposed to like him.

[Psychotic]

are you supposed to like king robert?

this is important.

[The Man]

thrad was way tl;dr even given that it's about pretty much my favourite fantasy series ever but Dan said I should poast so here goes. also i'm suffering from pretty severe depression and about to go on vacation so i might not respond any further or even keep up with responses. you have been warned.

significant portions of reddit are in fact hideously sexist. anyone who denies this at this point apparently hasnt read them very closely
it is possible to dislike more female characters in this series without being sexist even if male characters do the same things. the characterisation in this series is so utterly complex that it is pretty much impossible to quantify objective criteria for rating them, mostly because of how many characters there are and how many things most of the main ones do. the characterisation in this series is so complex that it's pretty much impossible to quantify objective reasons two characters should be comparable, because "other things being equal" never happens in this series. that is, there are so many differences between characters that there is no way to see one character as a distaff counterpart of another
objectively speaking most of the characters in this series are compelling and a lot of people's reasons given for disliking cat/dany/theon/whatever as characters fall flat on their faces. i can understand disliking them as people which is fine. however, the characterisation tends to be complex and realistic and there are very few characters who seem to be poorly drawn. most of the characters people constantly bitch about no longer bother me much; even characters i hate as people like roose and cersei still come across as compelling characters. there are only a few characters like gregor clegane that come across as one-dimensional, and even then there are one-dimensional villains in real life so it's not that big a deal
what i did skim of this thread looked mostly like people on both sides of the issue talking past one another which is why it got so boring so quickly
there, my 2¢. adjusted for inflation it's probably like $3 but whatever. apologies if any of this wasn't clear, i'll try to clarify if so.

edit:
Theon's a villain. You're not supposed to like him.

he starts out a villain, but by the end of adwd he definitely isn't one and it's pretty clear you're not supposed to think he deserves the horrifying torture he receives even after his horrific actions in acok.

[Freya]

Some of you just suck at reading comprehension.

Did anyone say that the reason, the only reason, or even the primary reason why people dislike a specific character is because of sex?

NO.

My reading comprehension is just fine! I'll show you!


My theory is that it's cause Cat doesn't have a dick and many of the other stupid stupid characters do and that somehow makes them less stupid than Cat.


I cringe to think of what the hyper misogynistic Reddit people might think of Cat


Female characters in general get much more criticism than their male counterparts.

Male characters have a longer leash to be stupid and get away with it than female characters.

Then finally you say


How much you let it influence you obviously depends on the person and it's not like I said that's the ONLY reason people might like or dislike characters.

But up until that point you were pretty much mainly saying it was a sexism thing if you look at those quotes. Then even after you say that you go into a tangent about sexism prevalent in media. Then proceed to continue that point in more posts. It was pretty much what you were arguing the past page or so in this thread. Even though people have said that it's her stupid decision you insist that it has something to do with sexism.

It's not all about gender and trying to make it about gender is just a padding it. Her actions were stupid. They were. This isn't about a male character. There isn't a male character who does what she does. This is about Cat and her stupid actions, trying to make it something other than that with the sexism train you can't seem to get off of is silly. The way Martin writes these characters is that they make ignorant decisions. I can't help it if that's how the character is written and that they happen to be female. Trying to put sexist overtones into it is ridiculous. I dislike people because I dislike them. It doesn't have to do with race or gender it has to with being a smurfwit. I can't say for others if it doesn't apply but for me at least it's just cause Cat is a smurfwit. Trying to speak for others saying that is their reasoning, that it does involve gender, is silly. Not everyone dislikes people cause of gender. Can't people just dislike someone because they dislike them? Apparently not. There HAS to be a sexist overtone. Has to.

[Miriel]

You REALLY don't think that unlikable female characters are bitched about WAY more than male characters?two words: theon greyjoy

imho miriel your views have been more sexist than anyone else in this thread.

Dude, have you even READ this thread? Pretty much all the comments about Theon have been about how the show is doing a good job making you feel bad for him, or how the actor is doing a great job of being a convincingly great asshole. People LIKE him as a villain. Compare the comments of Theon in this thread to the comments about Cat. Seriously. How many people have said the same about Cat? "Wow! Cat did something horribly stupid, but she's doing a good job of showing how desperate she feels!" Yeah, no.

I hated King Robert from the beginning, but from briefly skimming over this thread, I'm the only one who really hated him, and when I posted that, you posted that he's fan-freakin-tastic. Even though he ordered a kill ON A PUPPY.

He is the worst. The worst! Although Ned Stark comes close for actually doing the killing. A PUPPY!!! But people in this thread describe Robert as being hilarious.

And Freya, you kinda proved my point exactly. Every single thing you quoted had to do with the LEVEL of dislike, not the existence of dislike. MORE, LESS, LONGER, DISPROPORTIONATE, AMOUNT, etc. These are words that signify a degree. So how can you quote these things and then say that I'm making it ALL about gender? I'm saying it's a part. I'm saying that I think Cat gets MORE grief than male characters who have done terrible things. Worse things in my opinion than Cat in the show.

I mean christ, Drogo RAPED a main character and he's still well liked. Jaimie pushes a kid to possible death and people still like him. Myself included. I like both characters, and many of the other horrible stupid or evil characters. But Cat gets crapped on, a lot more than those characters, with few people chiming in anything positive. Yeah, I'm the crazy one for suggesting that sex plays a PART in that. Cause there is not a single part of any of the rest of you who MIGHT be influenced by sex, which influences nearly everything. Uh huh.

[Psychotic]

Now you're moving the goalposts. Either Cat is a stupid character or a bad character. You can't have both :colbert:

ps: king robert could kill a thousand puppies and also turn into a giant bird and still be the best character the show has ever seen

pps: i hope giant bird-robert flaps near you for ruining this once great thread :doublecolbert:

[Freya]

Then you're entirely missing the point. It is not about gender. IT IS NOT ABOUT GENDER. It is about stupidity.

[Miriel]

Now you're moving the goalposts. Either Cat is a stupid character or a bad character. You can't have both :colbert:

ps: king robert could kill a thousand puppies and also turn into a giant bird and still be the best character the show has ever seen

pps: i hope giant bird-robert flaps near you for ruining this once great thread :doublecolbert:

What are you talking about? Cat can be stupid and still be a good character. Theon is evil AND stupid, but he's still a good character.

You really think someone has to like the actions of a character in order to like what they add to a show?


Then you're entirely missing the point. It is not about gender. IT IS NOT ABOUT GENDER. It is about stupidity.
Oh my god, I can't even.

[Psychotic]

What are you talking about? Cat can be stupid and still be a good character. Theon is evil AND stupid, but he's still a good character.

You really think someone has to like the actions of a character in order to like what they add to a show?what. no!

I don't like Cat because she is stupid! I don't have an issue with the drama, character development etc she adds to the show and never said I did!

Stop it! Why are you doing this Miriel

why have you done this to the game of thrones thread

I don't understand

why

why did you do this

why

you just wait 'til the next puppy and/or photography thread rolls around you better god damn believe i will destroy it

A day will come when you think yourself safe and happy, and suddenly your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth, and you'll know the debt is paid.

[Miriel]

Hey, I just wanted to see more peen.

And you know why this happened, once someone mentions anything with an "ISM": racism, sexism, privilege, whatever. Other people will TO THEIR DYING BREATH claim that none of that is relevant. And then I'll be all, "yes it is" and they'll be all, "OMG NO IT ISN'T HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT?!" And I'll be like, "seriously?" And they're be all, "GOD YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT I HAVE BLACK FRIENDS!!"

Then the usual back and forth. Blah blah blah.

PS. Not 100% sure, but I think I am the only person to even bring up the fact that Drogo raped Dany in the first season. Wasn't even discussed or mentioned by the rest of you, despite many many instances of people talking about Drogo being awesome. Male characters never ever get a pass for being awful though, right? That just does. not. happen.

[Roogle]

The entire season has been a buildup for the next episode. Eeeee!

I feel like anyone who would think Cat is stupid hasn't bothered to take a moment to really put themselves in her shoes. Her husband was murdered, the murderers hold her daughters (well, they don't know Arya's MIA), another murderer has her little boys... though I was sure that at this point in the books she had heard Theon killed the boys. She is a mother, and all of her childrens' lives are in very direct danger. If I were her, I would be smurfing tit up all over the place to save my kids. Getting her girls back costs her, what, Jaime? In the books she makes him swear an oath not to take up arms again, at least. Regardless, what kind of parent wouldn't trade one guy for their captive children? He's a good fighter, sure, but it's not even like he's a great tactician; he can be captured or killed, but there may not be another chance for Cat to save her girls, especially since Karstark was looking to kill Jaime the first chance he'd get.



Yes, I am excited for the next episode, too.

I think that Catelyn is a very unique character to see in fiction as her story has a lot of twists and turns that most mothers are never put through. It is interesting to see her story in the books as she is a point of view character, so she doesn't benefit from the TV show as much as other characters like Robb have, but she will eventually, I think. That's what I'm most interested to see.

[Bunny]

PS. Not 100% sure, but I think I am the only person to even bring up the fact that Drogo raped Dany in the first season. Wasn't even discussed or mentioned by the rest of you, despite many many instances of people talking about Drogo being awesome. Male characters never ever get a pass for being awful though, right? That just does. not. happen.

Most of the people in this thread have read the books and understand the dynamic of their relationship, as well as the internal struggle that Dany faced that cannot be shown clearly in the show. It is horrific that she was raped by Drogo, but without the understanding of the books you cannot really comment on this scene accurately. It had to be shown the way it was because you cannot show the internal struggle that she was going through very well on a screen.

Also, I completely lied. I'm not done with this conversation but I have only one thing to say.


And you know why this happened, once someone mentions anything with an "ISM": racism, sexism, privilege, whatever. Other people will TO THEIR DYING BREATH claim that none of that is relevant. And then I'll be all, "yes it is" and they'll be all, "OMG NO IT ISN'T HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT?!" And I'll be like, "seriously?" And they're be all, "GOD YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT I HAVE BLACK FRIENDS!!"

Get off of your high horse and stop pretending like you are the only one who understands sexism or racism, or any other type of ism. This does not at all accurately represent any of the conversation that went on in the last few pages of this thread and is so utterly about you making yourself into a matyr that it is absolutely smurfing ridiculous. You position on the matter is known and regardless of whether or not you want to admit it, you clearly did not argue that position very well. You bring up things that lead to people drawing conclusions, don't point out in any of the following posts that the conclusions being drawn aren't exactly right and argue back and forth based on those 'false conclusions' and then refuse to provide your own opinions on the matter. If I wanted to read a dozen different interpretations on the sexual objectification of women in the series, or in any other type of media, I would. I asked for YOUR opinion on what constitutes sexism and sexual objectification within the context of the show and you refused to provide it because you are lazy or lack the understanding of what it is enough to further argue your point. If you aren't going to all the way to support your argument just stop right now and get over it.

Here are a few male characters that are frequently cited as the most hated people in the series, regardless of rhyme or reason:

Joffrey Baratheon: Even though he is represented as a vile little :bou::bou::bou::bou: and one of the major villains of the series, you cannot simply ignore him based on those grounds. Simply not being a sympathetic enough character is not grounds for dismissing him in this category. If you want to, that's your prerogative but it's pretty silly to do so.

Theon Greyjoy: He is not a villain at all and is one of the more sympathetic characters in the show and grows significantly throughout the show. He is a young man trying to find his place in the world and fucks up so many times doing it. He betrays the family that loves him for the family that hates him, betrays his best and only friend in the entire world out of some misguided loyalty for his father, and gets completely demolished for it. Calling him a villain does a complete disservice for his growth as a character.

The Hound: A lot of people hate him because of the actions that he makes and the things that he does on behalf of Joffrey. His protection and care of Sansa redeems him a bit but does not completely absolve the hatred that he receives from fans of the show and books.

[Jinx]

GRRM wrote the next episode.

[Cuchulainn]

This thread has become redundant. Let me save you all time and effort.

It doesn't matter what you say or how you say it. Our reasons for hating idiotic women will always be sexist ones to Mirial Of Arc, we have no say in this. Evidence is not needed for her judgement. Only women bleed, all men are scum and bras are nothing but a prison for the chest..

Now can we get back on track.


I'd really do Rose Leslie. I duno why she looks so smurfing hot as an unwashed wild woman but good god people.

[Bunny]

Off current topic spoilers:

Did anyone else notice that they are making Roose's betrayal of Robb and the eventual Red Wedding scene more understandable to the audience with the introduction of Thalisa? There have been several scenes in which Robb and Roose have been talking, she comes in, and he dismisses him to his disappointment. If you look at his faces, you can see that he's growing more and more pissed at these instances. Thought it was kinda cool that they are starting to put it in the audiences heads this early.

[Cuchulainn]

They've done this with seceral characters in the TV series to make them more sympathetic to the audience. Cersei springs to mind. However, yes I've noticed.

[Miriel]

Re Bunny: Yes, because acknowledging sexism is somehow waaay more high horse-y than completely just denying that it plays a part in any of this. I don't know why you keep arguing this with such a scoffing and dismissive attitude. I think anyone who reads my post has a clear understanding of why I think the way I do. Do I really need to get all dissertation-y on your ass? Cause yeah, I am lazy, and I don't think it has a place in this thread anymore. Which is why I told you to google it because there is a LOT already within about it. And my views generally line up with others who have written about GoT using women as sexual props. SNL even did a skit about it for god's sake. And even more crazy, that bit about sexual objectification only came about as some of us females lamenting the lack of male eye candy. The only reason that discussion went full blown was cause you had the gall to take something lighthearted and then be all, THAT'S NOT SEXISM about it, when clearly that's not true. Do you even realize how often males have used the "it's just target demographics" excuse? It was amusing to hear you post that while simultaneously promoting men's rights. You think being all, "That's not sexist, and THAT's not sexist, and neither is THAT" is somehow so much better than me saying, "That IS sexist, and that other thing is sexist too"? Do you see me asking YOU to prove how something ins't sexist? To prove that serving a target demographic is mutually exclusive from sexism? Nah.

Why do I have to convince you of my position? I don't. I'll say it again, I DON'T CARE if you hate Cat for whatever reasons you want to, and I don't care if you don't agree with me. It's my theory and one that makes sense to me. If you want more answers about sexism in media, then do what I suggested and research the topic. It's not my job to go beyond posting my opinion, which as far as I can tell has been pretty clear and readily understandable.

To Psychotic, I do apologize for hurting your beloved thread. You're right that this has absolutely gone on far too long. I would have stopped long ago, if people's responses weren't so god damn bitchy. Which I'm sure is the same reason people haven't stopped responding to me.

[Freya]

Lighthearted? The convo had nothing to do with cats gender until you brought it up.

Telling people that they are wrong, that gender does play a part in it, is very pretentious of you. Of course you're going to get the reactions you got. What did you expect?

While everything isn't sexist, it's also not free from sexism either. The problem people are having is that you are telling us that we personally feel a certain way because of sexist reasons. Not every emotion is because of sexist/racist/etc ideals. Some of us are just hateful, critical people. Telling us that we have motives other than that is you assuming and making decisions for us. That's why people are getting snippy wih you. But you can't accept the fact that we just don't like her. You keep insisting that there has to be more to it, that her gender is part of it. We keep telling you that's not the case but we're the ones that are bitchy?

[Miriel]

Lighthearted? The convo had nothing to do with cats gender until you brought it up.


And even more crazy, that bit about sexual objectification only came about as some of us females lamenting the lack of male eye candy. The only reason that discussion went full blown was cause you had the gall to take something lighthearted and then be all, THAT'S NOT SEXISM about it, when clearly that's not true.
I'm pretty sure us talking about lack of penis was lighthearted.


But you can't accept the fact that we just don't like her. You keep insisting that there has to be more to it, that her gender is part of it. We keep telling you that's not the case but we're the ones that are bitchy?
I can accept it. I've already said I accept it. I've even also said that she obviously has qualities people legitimately dislike about her, even if I don't agree. Where you keep missing the point is in the discussion ABOUT her versus the level of discussion towards other characters isn't in my opinion, without some sort of gender bias. As it is with a LOT of fandoms out there. Nearly every fandom in fact. I think you just plain skim over my posts (not that I blame you, they are long). And yes, y'all ARE being bitchy and overprotective. And I was being bitchy too. What about it?

There are two points here, one about Cat and another about boy's nudity vs. girls, which Bunny seemed to take offense to that I might suggest sexism in such a thing. And also, some random bits thrown in about reddit for good measure.

The ultimate question I have is: If there were a role reversal and Cat were a man and Ned was a woman. Do YOU personally feel that the reaction to those characters would be exactly the same as the reaction now? Same dialogue, same motivations, same circumstance, but just switching the genders. If you think it would be the same, that people wouldn't cut a man a little bit more slack, that a female character as dumb as Ned would still be well liked just as much, then we're on two completely different wave lengths. And I happen not to agree.

[Del Murder]

Ned would have made one dumb bitch.

[Shlup]

he starts out a villain, but by the end of adwd he definitely isn't one and it's pretty clear you're not supposed to think he deserves the horrifying torture he receives even after his horrific actions in acok.
He's still a villain. Just not as much as Ramsay Snow/Bolton.


Off current topic spoilers:

Did anyone else notice that they are making Roose's betrayal of Robb and the eventual Red Wedding scene more understandable to the audience with the introduction of Thalisa? There have been several scenes in which Robb and Roose have been talking, she comes in, and he dismisses him to his disappointment. If you look at his faces, you can see that he's growing more and more pissed at these instances. Thought it was kinda cool that they are starting to put it in the audiences heads this early.
Yes, actually. (http://imgur.com/a/kqI6a)


The ultimate question I have is: If there were a role reversal and Cat were a man and Ned was a woman. Do YOU personally feel that the reaction to those characters would be exactly the same as the reaction now? Same dialogue, same motivations, same circumstance, but just switching the genders. If you think it would be the same, that people wouldn't cut a man a little bit more slack, that a female character as dumb as Ned would still be well liked just as much, then we're on two completely different wave lengths. And I happen not to agree.
I have a feeling Freya's going to continue to walk past you, but for what it's worth I agree entirely with this point, and think that anyone who's living in denial of gender bias that hard has some impressive skills.


Ned would have made one dumb bitch.
Fo' sho'.

[Hollycat]

did anyone buy the game?

[Freya]

Obviously you'll keep ignoring my points and continue to bring her gender into the equation rather than speaking of her actions objectively. I think you just plain skim over my posts. (not that I blame you they can get long) so ill just stop here with, I don't think gender has anything to do with my hate toward her and you think it does. That's that. Good job. We can stop this nonsense and get back to making this thread awesome like Paul wants.

[Shlup]

did anyone buy the game?
Which one? The RPG or the RTS? I downloaded the RTS to give it a shot but never installed it. Too busy, what with Skyrim and Skyward Sword and FFXIII-2 and Diablo III and Guild Wars 2.

[The Man]

he starts out a villain, but by the end of adwd he definitely isn't one and it's pretty clear you're not supposed to think he deserves the horrifying torture he receives even after his horrific actions in acok.
He's still a villain. Just not as much as Ramsay Snow/Bolton.
I disagree. His internal monologue indicates that he is repentant for most of his most horrible actions and his actions indicate he has quite a lot of concern for others. The old Theon would never have rescued Jeyne from Ramsay at great personal risk. I'm pretty sure Martin threw that in there, amongst other reasons, to show us that Theon is a changed man.

[Shlup]

He's no Joffrey, but there's some tit you can't undo.

I changed your spoiler tag to cover more of your post because, even though it's minor, Theon being remorseful and changing hasn't happened in the show yet.

[Freya]

Now that I'm home and not posting from work on my phone, yes I would still hate both their actions just as much as I hate them now.

I don't understand what's so hard to believe that I focus on actions of a character instead of gender? I don't separate people into categories. I think of people as one whole unit. They aren't male or female, they are people. And people are fucking idiots.

But this whole sexism nonsense isn't suited for this thread. Make an EoEO thread if you want to go on about it. This thread is about GoT and the show and occasionally the books. And maybe the game if you got it (I hear it's really super glitchy with gameplay and graphics. But the story is supposed to be great, slow at the beginning and then bam awesome.) And despite how many times I tried to steer it back to being about the characters and their actions it keeps getting spread to this sexism thing. So enough, take it to an EoEO thread. Let's get back to talking about how amazing Jaqen is.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3p0ix7kH81qlhpab.gif

[Shlup]

You're taking commentary on society waaay too personal. Keep the gifs coming though.

[Rantz]

I'd do Jaqen. And I'm really excited for the next episode.

[Psychotic]

I hope this episode sees Melisandre casting a spell on Stannis so that he grows to the size of the Stay Puft man, and then he stomps King's Landing. Naked.

[The Man]

He's no Joffrey, but there's some tit you can't undo.Right, I wouldn't consider him a hero for exactly that reason. He's an anti-hero, like Jaime and several other characters.

@spoiler thing, makes sense, I probably would've even spoilered more of your previous post I responded to, since it implies content in my post that is kind of spoilerish, but whatever :monster:

[Hollycat]

did anyone buy the game?
Which one? The RPG or the RTS? I downloaded the RTS to give it a shot but never installed it. Too busy, what with Skyrim and Skyward Sword and FFXIII-2 and Diablo III and Guild Wars 2.
The one that came out last tuesday

[chionos]

I'd do Jaqen. And I'm really excited for the next episode.

ditto that.

I hope he gets more time in the show than he does in the books

I think at times Martin's characters move beyond even the anti-hero tag. We can't label some characters at all because we can't tell what their true motivations are, and I think that's because the characters themselves don't always fully understand what's motivating them. What's really interesting to follow is how different characters affect each other. Jaime and Arya are notable for this. Their characters make little shifts each time they get tangled up with someone new. Is it me or is it the one-dimensional characters that tend to get themselves killed? Joffrey--100% douche=dead, Ned--100% honorable=dead, etc.

I expect this next episode to be really awesome. The last couple have felt a bit flat, which is understandable of course because of the way the storylines are moving, but I'm ready for some more big moments.

[Freya]

A woman asks, and a woman shall receive.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4dkd4xuFq1qal0zgo1_r1_500.gif

I find this guy to be like the hottest assassin ever and I'm sad there isn't the bath scene with him or something. I'm sure it's because they knew ovaries eveyrwhere would explode.

[Jinx]

Those white streaks melt my panties.

[NorthernChaosGod]

You people sure can fucking talk about a bunch of bullshit. :colbert:

KC, keep posting gifs. :D

[Roogle]

The one that came out last tuesday


Yes, which one is that? Is it a role-playing game?

[Freya]

YFuTR3ltuTs

I believe he means that one. Since it just came out like a week or so ago.

[Shlup]

I'm just not sure how I feel about that game.

Instead of gameofthrones-thegame.com it should be gameofthronesbutactuallyagamethistime.com

[chionos]

I'm trying out the d20 version of the GoT pen&paper starting next week with my d&d/a&a crew. After I run a demo of it, we're going to try the newer Green Ronin version, SoIaF. Lots of potential for roleplaying funness.

I would like to remind everyone at this juncture that we need more Jaqen gifs. What's it been, like 4, 5 posts with no gif action? Seriously?

I hate myself for this (I like to think of myself as a purist), but I hope they find a way to not kill off "Jaqen H'ghar". He changes his face, if I remember correctly, when he and Arya part, and possibly shows up later in the books as someone else, yes? I wonder if they'll just use Tom Wlaschiha with makeup or use a different actor for the new face.

Jaqen is definitely one of the peripheral characters that I want to see more of in the show. Such a smurfing awesome character, and brilliant acting from Wlaschiha.

I don't want to be lazy so:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53563334/jaqen1.gif

Deserves its own post:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53563334/kill%20anybody.gif http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53563334/swear%20it.gif

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53563334/jaqen%20burn.gif http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53563334/smartass.gif

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53563334/seriously.gif

[Iceglow]

I go away for a few weeks, spend a week recuperating from my stresses with friends in Scotland and return to the illustrious land of EoFF and what do I find?

I find that with my absence the males of these here good lands have been lax in their control of these mewling pre-menstrual QUIMS!

I for one will not tolerate this! No! No! It will not do!

You penis fixated wenches can go watch a billion cocks on pornhub or some other filth you shall not drag or besmirch the good name of A Game of Thrones nor derail this temple to the Gods, the new and the old beyond counting! You dare accuse a medieval fantasy fiction of sexism? I'm not above accepting it is sexist, but then what medieval fantasy setting isn't? Simply look at the very game series this entire website is dedicated to? The three times they gave a game a female main character the series promptly dived off a cliff suffering a heart attack whilst being brutally sodomized by The Hulk! Even A Final Fantasy game without sexism is terrible and yet you complain? I doubt it! Refute my points that X-2, XIII and XIII-2 are low points in the series? Ok sure we can argue about the mechanics of X-2 being amazing and some of the best but from a plot point? From a gameplay point? Dress Sphere need I say anything smurfing else? Enough of your smelly facetious mewling about sexism, get me a damn ale and be quick about it or else damn you!

And yes, this entire post is dedicated to the most pre-menstrual of them all; Shlupquack and Miriel! You want to see a penis? If you saw my penis, engorged and terrible, you would not know what to do with it, and cower in terror!

[Jinx]

Dude, we moved past that. Why feel the need to stir up more shit?

[Shlup]

THANKS FOR THE INPUT, ICEGLOW.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/128/slowpoke_pokemon.gif

P.S. Next time you refer to someone here as "pre-menstural," I will make it my mission to upset you in various ways. That is certainly high on the list of sexist bullshit.


I hate myself for this (I like to think of myself as a purist), but I hope they find a way to not kill off "Jaqen H'ghar". He changes his face, if I remember correctly, when he and Arya part, and possibly shows up later in the books as someone else, yes? I wonder if they'll just use Tom Wlaschiha with makeup or use a different actor for the new face.

Jaqen is definitely one of the peripheral characters that I want to see more of in the show. Such a smurfing awesome character, and brilliant acting from Wlaschiha.

I choose to subscribe to the theory that he's Syrio! Mostly because I can.

[Iceglow]

Because Stannis Baratheon has Lightbringer. Because Ned Stark has Ice and because Jon Snow has Long Claw and Iceglow? Well Iceglow has his Long Throbbing Pork Surprise.

[Psychotic]

Because Stannis Baratheon has Lightbringer. Because Ned Stark has Ice and because Jon Snow has Long Claw and Iceglow? Well Iceglow has his Long Throbbing Pork Surprise.They will bend the knee, or Steve will destroy them.

[Jinx]

Because Stannis Baratheon has Lightbringer. Because Ned Stark had Ice and because Jon Snow has Long Claw and Iceglow? Well Iceglow has his Long Throbbing Pork Surprise.

Fix'd.

[Madame Adequate]

Ned Stark wasn't stupid though. He was just playing chess when the game was russian pentos roulette. Anyway y'all ruined a great thread and I just wanted to talk about how great that episode was, anyone who says otherwise is a chump who doesn't understand pacing or the art of building up to a crescendo or that beautiful, perfect "See if I give one fuck" shrug Arya gave Jaqen when he said a girl has no honor.

PS. Sansa isn't remotely dumb, she's been disabused of a great many mythical notions and that's not going to be an easy thing for anyone to deal with, and she is now completely powerless but is managing to keep herself alive and hold herself together when she needs to.

[Cuchulainn]

I've never thought Sansa was dumb. She was a privileged child and thus acted like a privileged child. The normalisation started happening when the privilege was taken away. It's almost as if her stay in Kings Landing is stripping away everything she was in order for her to rebuild as a person.

I don't know why but Davos is still my favorite character, him & Stannis. I've yet to meet anyone who likes the fella as much as me, him and from book 5 Wyman Manderly. I was getting pretty depressed by this point of the reading & when the reveal happened with him & his intentions this joy soared in me gut. I seem to like unexpected & unlikely heroes.

[Del Murder]

I'm reading Clash of Kings right now and I think I like the pacing in the book better than the show. It's easier to do a lot of boring setup in a book than a TV show. Game of Thrones wasn't as nearly as much setup as this. One thing I am really disappointed about was that one of the best things on the show this season, Arya & Tywin's interaction, isn't in the book at all. I'm glad they made that change because the characters really worked well with each other! I like the show version of Tywin much better in general.

[Jinx]

I've never thought Sansa was dumb. She was a privileged child and thus acted like a privileged child. The normalisation started happening when the privilege was taken away. It's almost as if her stay in Kings Landing is stripping away everything she was in order for her to rebuild as a person.


Agreed. She's a brat when the series starts out, but she progresses a lot. All she wants to do is go home and be safe, and she's pretty wily about how she plays herself. Of course Cersei sees through it (because Cersei used to be just like her). I actually find her story and Arya's stories the best and worst, because all they want is to be with their family.

[Freya]

BEST EPISODE EVER. Drunk Cersei was hilarious. The war drums were great. Pansy Joff and Badass Tyrion were amusing. San San :D But the best was that amazing firework show. And OMG if I didn't know what happened i'd be pretty upset right now about Davos going boom! The San vs Bronn bit was great.

I like Shae a lot more in the show than I did in the books. I was all "Yeah no one will rape you! YOU GO GIRL" Lancel being all pansy was funny and when Cersei punched him in his wound it made me laugh more than it should have. The hound was great, you could tell GRRM wrote this cause there were tons of great lines. And Stannis made sure that one guy couldn't get ahead in battle :D:D:D

Great stuff! I wanna watch it again!


http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4po9iyCbQ1r4pwt8o2_250.gifhttp://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4po9iyCbQ1r4pwt8o3_250.gif
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4po9iyCbQ1r4pwt8o1_500.gif
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4po9iyCbQ1r4pwt8o4_500.gif

EXPLOSIONS!

[Marshall Banana]

Best episode of season 2 yet! =D

Tyrion's nose wasn't cut off, was it? Didn't look like it. I hope it wasn't. D=

[Freya]

It didn't look like it!


http://i.minus.com/iAeQ2KJ7L5Azh.gif

[Marshall Banana]

Yeah, the wildfire was amazing. =O

[Psychotic]

stannis

stannis wins

hurray

HURRAY

KING STANNIS

why are all my favourites being hurt in this episode :(

[Jinx]

First off, wildfire is soooo pretty and awesome.

Second, no fake Renly?

Third, despite the awesome wildfire bits, I thought the last scene was the best.

Fourth, RED FLOWER

[Rantz]

I WANT THE FULL VERSION OF RAINS OF CASTAMERE

Oh yeah, and great episode.

[Freya]

He was there! Loook you can see the antlers on his helm!

http://i.imgur.com/rsJoP.gif
http://i.imgur.com/LMkFv.gif

it was loras! ANTLERS! They were tiny but they were there.

Can we just agree at how badass stannis was? He was the first off the boat, first charged in, first up the ladder, first one being a motherfucking badass. Team Stannis all the way in this episode.

[Shlup]

Best episode of season 2 yet! =D

Tyrion's nose wasn't cut off, was it? Didn't look like it. I hope it wasn't. D=
I don't see how they would be able to keep up with the make-up for that in the show. Rorge also kept his nose. Now Tyrion gets a sexy scar instead!
http://i.imgur.com/aw6tp.gif


First off, wildfire is soooo pretty and awesome.

Second, no fake Renly?

Third, despite the awesome wildfire bits, I thought the last scene was the best.

Fourth, RED FLOWER
Yeah, they didn't emphasize that much, but it was there.

That episode was perfect. I'm glad GRRM chose that one to right, and they got a good director who insisted on a proper budget. Every character was very entertaining, http://i.imgur.com/OWWm3.png and there was lots of Pod, and they put in my very favorite line from the series: "Fuck your water. Bring me wine!"

Next week's episode will have ten extra minutes! Eee!

My favorite thing to come out of /r/gameofthrones for this episode:

http://i.imgur.com/JOgak.jpg

[Del Murder]

All the buildup finally pays off. I really liked how this episode focused only on Kings Landing and smurf the other storylines.

Stannis was a badass being the first guy off the boat, but dude's army got spanked by Tyrion and then Loras. He should stick to his smoke babies.

[McLovin']

F*&K THE KING.

The Hound is a beast. That is all.

[Bunny]

Stannis was a badass being the first guy off the boat, but dude's army got spanked by Tyrion and then Loras. He should stick to his smoke babies.

then Tywin*

Man, that episode was smurfing great. I don't have any complaints that matter.

This just makes me even more excited for The Red Wedding and Joffrey's Feast. Hopefully they'll include those in the different seasons and Martin will get to write both of the episodes.

[Psychotic]

I want Gimli and Tyrion to hang out and be Dwarf buddies.

[Madame Adequate]

Hahahaha hooooly fuck that episode was top-to-bottom brilliance. Stannis is a stone cold badass, doesn't flinch when half his fleet is wiped out, not only leads from the literal front but does it without a shield, first up the ladder, starts wrecking guys.

Poor Lancel picked a bad time to grow a pair, but I commend him for the effort.

[Freya]

Look who they've announced will be in next season!

Mance Rayder: We’ve heard about him all season. A former member of the Night’s Watch who became the “King Beyond the Wall,” the leader of the Wildlings.
Daario Naharis: A confident and seductive warrior.
Jojen Reed; Meera Reed: A teenage brother and sister duo with special insights.
Edmure Tully: A brash young member of the Tully family.
Ser Brynden Tully (The Blackfish): Catelyn Stark’s uncle.
Lady Selyse Florent: Stannis Baratheon’s wife.
Shireen: Stannis’ daughter.
Olenna Redwyne (The Queen of Thorns): Margaery Tyrell’s sharp-witted grandmother.
Beric Dondarrion: A skilled knight who is the leader of the outlaw group Brotherhood Without Banners.
Thoros of Myr: A red priest who follows the same religion as Melisandre.
Tormund Giantsbane: A Wildling raider.

[Jinx]

CRANNOGMEN

OLENNA

BERIC




so excite

[Bunny]

I, like many others, hope that they get Maggie Smith to play the Queen of Thorns. I wonder if they're going to cast Dondarrion since he was only in one scene briefly and could likely get away with it.

About time they bring in the Reeds. People can stop bitching about them being left out of the second season.

[Shlup]

If they manage to get Maggie Smith for the Queen of Thorns... I don't even know. I would just be so pleased. I imagine, though, that it's likely to conflict with Downton Abbey, and I don't know how she feels about so much vulgarity. Has she ever done anything not family-friendly?

[Bunny]

A boy can dream.

[Rantz]

I am completely excited about almost all of those new characters.

[Freya]

Fire from dragons? Ice Zombies? They should call this show a Show of Ice and Fire! That could be a clever original title that is inventive!

HOLY AWESOME! That end that is. Brienne was a badass and the khal drogo part made me teary eyed. Poor Theon :( His men are dicks. The Maester Luwin made me teary eyed too! I don't think they did a good job alluding to the deal Quorin and Jon had. Jon just seemed to... kill him. And I wasn't impressed by the House of the Undying. It was just meh. Weren't they supposed to allude to future events? But no it just made me sad about Drogo :(

Also funniest thing I read on reddit:
"CARL! GET IN THE FUCKING HOUSE!"

[Marshall Banana]

The CG white walkers looked stupid.The episode should have ended with the looks on Sam's and his companions' faces after the horn sounded for the third time.

The scene between Shae and Tyrion was really touching, though; and Brienne is awesome!

[Del Murder]

As episodes this season go, this was one of the better ones. As finales go, this one kind of blowed. Pretty disappointing. Not enough Tyrion or Arya. Too much Jon and Dany. They're cool and all but their storylines are so far removed from the rest of the cast that it's hard to care all that much.

[McLovin']

As episodes this season go, this was one of the better ones. As finales go, this one kind of blowed. Pretty disappointing. Not enough Tyrion or Arya. Too much Jon and Dany. They're cool and all but their storylines are so far removed from the rest of the cast that it's hard to care all that much.

Are you kidding, the best parts of the episode came from those two storylines. Freakin' dragons burning bitches and zombies eating the fat kid!

[Psychotic]

House of the Undying was a real let down compared to the things Dany saw in the book. Agree with Kaycee that the Qhorin scene wasn't really explained well enough. Other than that, pretty good!

[Shlup]

I need to stop reading this thread. You people are fucking impossible to please. I have no complaints.

http://i.imgur.com/Mxd9S.gif

[Del Murder]

I guess my expectations are too high. I just remember a lot of 'oh sh*t' moments in the last few episodes of season 1, and the finale did a good job of tying up all the storylines from the season and setting up the new stories for each character. This finale had too many loose ends that weren't tied, but I guess it just continues on into the next book/season.



As episodes this season go, this was one of the better ones. As finales go, this one kind of blowed. Pretty disappointing. Not enough Tyrion or Arya. Too much Jon and Dany. They're cool and all but their storylines are so far removed from the rest of the cast that it's hard to care all that much.

Are you kidding, the best parts of the episode came from those two storylines. Freakin' dragons burning bitches and zombies eating the fat kid!
I didn't see them eat him. They just walked right past him! And he's so fat and juicy too.

Those moments were cool but those stories are moving so slowly that it's hard to keep interest. At this pace the zombies will reach the wall by the end of season 3, Winterfell by the end of season 4, and King's Landing by the end of season 5 when people will finally give a smurf about them. Also it would be nice to see Daenerys have interaction with a major character other than Jorah for a change. I hope she actually gets ships and sails them next season instead of more 'hmmm how do I get some ships kind stranger of a random free city?'

Speaking of Winterfell, why was the city deserted? I thought there were 500 men waiting outside it to liberate it, yet nobody is there and the whole city burns? And how did Luwin's ass get all the way to the godswood?

[Jinx]

Cos Luwin is cool as shit.

[Miriel]

I need to stop reading this thread. You people are smurfing impossible to please. I have no complaints.

http://i.imgur.com/Mxd9S.gif
I thought it was a pretty bland season finale. Maybe if you've read the book, it played better for you. But compared to a bunch of other season finales, it really doesn't compare. Look at the recent season finales for Breaking Bad, Revenge, Grey's Anatomy (!!!!), Sherlock, etc.

It's one of those situations where the individual pieces are better than the whole. Each individual scene was good (except the Dany stuff) but for some reason, when you put it all together you don't have a exciting and cohesive episode. This show has really really terrible editing/pacing problems. It's even worse than True Blood, which has horrific pacing.

The stuff with Luwin was super sad. ;_; And also super sad that they turned Arya's friend ugly. Whyyy?? Hope he doesn't keep that face if he and Arya meet up again. Dany & Drogo's baby was fucking cute as hell. I wanted to eat that baby. Nom nom nom.



Also funniest thing I read on reddit:
"CARL! GET IN THE smurfING HOUSE!"

LMAO, I immediately flashed back to the Walking Dead during the last scene.

[Shlup]

Oddly enough, I thought the season finale of Grey's Anatomy was bland. Aside from the first maybe 1/3 of it, which was really good. Revenge was bland all the way through, though I get the feeling it's just getting started, which is good.

It's true that this season was more about building up for the next two seasons, which cover my favorite book. Dany's story is the slowest to build. For being constrained by the overall storylines of the books, I think they're doing as well as they can with the pacing. These fabulous books could easily translate into a terrible show, but they've managed to keep the show engaging and visually stunning.

For some reason, Maester Luwin has always been the most gutting death to me.

[Jinx]

The whole time with Luwin, I wanted to ;-;

ALSO OMG SO MUCH PODRICK

I LOVE YOU POD

I want to eat him.

[Del Murder]

I agree that the show is limited by the source material and they could have done a terrible job with it. Some of the best moments of this season (Arya + Tywin) weren't even in the book. I'm reading A Clash of Kings right now and it's pretty dry compared to the first one.

I'm excited for the next seasons if those are your favorite, Amanda. I don't know if I'll be able to wait a year before reading ahead of the show.

[Shlup]

Once you read ahead of the show, there's no stopping it. There are a few characters where I can't watch a scene with them without just being like "I know what happens to yoooouuu. :stare:"

[Bunny]

That was a pretty good finale.

[Rantz]

Great episode, decent finale.

I wonder why they left out Dany's prophecy! That's pretty central to her character later on. The House of the Undying seemed cooled at first but it seemed kind of cut short towards the end, which disappointed me a bit.

Luwin. :( HE DIDN'T DESERVE THAT.

[blackmage_nuke]

Loved it the finale, the editing felt a bit more chaotic than ususal but the individual stories themselves were still entertaining. I'm still not sure what Arya personally has against The Hound. Was there some event I can't recall which put him on her list?

I was sort of hoping Sansa and the Hound would run off on some whacky adventure together, and maybe bring tyrion and his posse along but that doesnt seem to be the case (at least not yet)

[chionos]

I'm in with the "a bit disappointing" crowd. There were several good scenes, but several others that were basically botched. Like the house of the undying, for instance. That should have been much better. The aftermath with Dany worked okay, but the time in the tower itself was fast-forwarded and seemed almost pointless compared to the book.

Tyrion's scar was disappointing. It's not really monstrous.

I love Ygritte. Hearing her say "Jon Snow" makes me all googly inside. Or horny. Or something.

If there was one thing they should have changed from the book to the show it was to keep Jaqen from changing. How that could have worked, I have no idea since he's a faceless man, but by golly they should have freaking thought of something.

[Rantz]

I'm still not sure what Arya personally has against The Hound. Was there some event I can't recall which put him on her list?

Her friend Mycah, the butcher's boy. Clove him in half and all that.

[Bunny]

Tyrion's scar was disappointing. It's not really monstrous.

If there was one thing they should have changed from the book to the show it was to keep Jaqen from changing. How that could have worked, I have no idea since he's a faceless man, but by golly they should have freaking thought of something.

I actually prefer the giant scar that he'll now have along his entire face. I think that was a good, and understandable change that will be easier to manage. Personal opinion but eh, whatever.

Also I don't really see how this matters since You don't see Jaqen again until he murders Pate in AFFC, and even then I'm not sure you see him very clearly.

[chionos]

Tyrion's scar was disappointing. It's not really monstrous.

If there was one thing they should have changed from the book to the show it was to keep Jaqen from changing. How that could have worked, I have no idea since he's a faceless man, but by golly they should have freaking thought of something.

I actually prefer the giant scar that he'll now have along his entire face. I think that was a good, and understandable change that will be easier to manage. Personal opinion but eh, whatever.

Also I don't really see how this matters since You don't see Jaqen again until he murders Pate in AFFC, and even then I'm not sure you see him very clearly.

Yes that's part of the change I refer too, don't change the face AND give the character more screen time than the books allow.

Tyrion is a monster in the books after the injury. Hideous to look at. Tyrion called himself a monster in the show, but it just came across as whiny instead of an accurate assessment. I mean, I understand why they did it, it's easier, but it's nevertheless disappointing and turns Tyrion's self-deprecating dialogue from future shows into mere whining.

[Necronopticous]

The white walkers look straight out of Hercules: The Legendary Journeys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-tyFqjfSIA).

[Madame Adequate]

Don't know what you people are on about, that finale was top-to-bottom awesome, full of HOLY SMURF, and set all kinds of shit up for the next season. I do agree that the House of the Undying scenes were a little abrupt but still, a bitch got burned to death by dragonfire. Shouldn't have overlooked the water spells man. Also my theory about their magic coming back with the dragons was correct, hooray!

Luwin no :cry: Though god damn Rickon actually got some lines.

Also I was confused about Stannis, I had thought he was grabbed by some of King's Landing's defenders, but apparently it was his own men who then got him home safely. Man needs to cut that red lady open tbh.

Dany was stone cold to a degree that I wouldn't even expect from Stannis though, damn.

[Del Murder]

Full of holy smurf? You must not watch much television.

[Jinx]

Does Melisandre believe Stannis is really Azhor Azhai come again, OR is she using Stannis to get as far as possible in her plans. As in, she sees him as expandable as a human being, but he has the force and power to accomplish a lot of her plans. It's sometimes hard to tell, because she's so...........iffy. If she REALLY believes Stannis is AA or if she's using him.

I agree that the House of the Undying was slightly lame. I read the second book at the middle of this season and I'm like, "OMG I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIIIIIS." Although, I will say, there was a MUCH more emotional connection to what happened, that there was in the actual book. In the actual book she's just like, "OMG THIS SHIT IS SO SCAAARY" the entire time. In the show, it really showed you like, "Hey, this is what she lost. And if she's willing to sacrifice her life and her plans, this is what she COULD have. Or she can go on." Her decision there was very final. Like, giving up Drogo and Rhaego was permanent. That aside, at the very least, it was symbolic of the life she left behind in regards to where she is now, and what she hopes to and will become.

ALSO WHY ARE YOU GUYS NOT TALKING ABOUT HOW AMAZINGLY EATABLE POD IS?

[Shlup]

Also I was confused about Stannis, I had thought he was grabbed by some of King's Landing's defenders, but apparently it was his own men who then got him home safely. Man needs to cut that red lady open tbh.
A lot of viewers seem to have thought that. If you re-watch it, you'll be able to tell the difference between Lannister and Gold Cloak armor, and the armor Stannis's army wears. Stannis is a hard motherfucker--he was ready to fight until every single person, including himself, was dead.


Dany was stone cold to a degree that I wouldn't even expect from Stannis though, damn.
You don't mess with a lady's babies, even if they're, uh... adopted.


Does Melisandre believe Stannis is really Azhor Azhai come again, OR is she using Stannis to get as far as possible in her plans. As in, she sees him as expandable as a human being, but he has the force and power to accomplish a lot of her plans. It's sometimes hard to tell, because she's so...........iffy. If she REALLY believes Stannis is AA or if she's using him.
She really believes in what she's doing. It's harder to tell in the books, but in the show you may be able to come to that conclusion in the scene where Stannis is choking her--she doesn't fight back because she's as dedicated as Davos, and will accept her death if that's what Stannis sees as fit.


I agree that the House of the Undying was slightly lame. I read the second book at the middle of this season and I'm like, "OMG I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIIIIIS." Although, I will say, there was a MUCH more emotional connection to what happened, that there was in the actual book. In the actual book she's just like, "OMG THIS SHIT IS SO SCAAARY" the entire time. In the show, it really showed you like, "Hey, this is what she lost. And if she's willing to sacrifice her life and her plans, this is what she COULD have. Or she can go on." Her decision there was very final. Like, giving up Drogo and Rhaego was permanent. That aside, at the very least, it was symbolic of the life she left behind in regards to where she is now, and what she hopes to and will become.
Honestly, I wasn't particularly into that scene in the book, so I was happy with the TV version. I suppose people wanted to see more prophecy, but a visual gives away more than text does, so I'm satisfied with the gutted throne room.


ALSO WHY ARE YOU GUYS NOT TALKING ABOUT HOW AMAZINGLY EATABLE POD IS?
OH HELL YEAH, TEAM POD. I loved him in the book, but something about the actor's face is just too endearing.

[Bunny]

Can we just all stop and take a moment for the best performance of the finale?

Mothersmurfin' Hodor.

[Del Murder]

I read the House of the Undying chapter the other day and I also don't see what all the hype was about. It was as boring in the book. In fact, I liked it in the show better because it had Dany's cute little baby in it.

[Freya]

Hodor's sad "Hodor" was sad and Hodory :(

[Jinx]

THE DRAGON HAS THREE HEADS

Dany, Pod, Hodor

[Psychotic]

The prophecies in the House of the Undying are what make it cool. A lot of them are true and do happen but I won't say what cause, y'know, spoilers. And I would've loved to have seen Rhaegar's death as well as Aegon's birth. Oh and Rhaego burning cities. Not to mention the whole THREE BETRAYALS WILL YOU KNOW shit, I mean come the fuck on that is a sodding plot point.

You people just don't appreciate nice things.

[Del Murder]

I'm sure after you read further you appreciate that chapter more. To me it just seemed like a bunch of nonsense.

[Del Murder]

I just finished reading Clash of Kings. I now understand why not much happened in the show. In 900 pages you would expect much of significance to happen but it really didn't. In fact, many of the more memorable moments this season such as Arya & Tywin's banter, Cat letting Jamie go, Jamie & Briene's adventures, the zombies marching on the Night's Watch camp were not in this book. It was basically 900 pages of setup. And the ending was very underwhelming. Unlike Game of Thrones, where the individual storylines were more confined to that book and the ending had one of the biggest 'oh smurf' moments of the entire series. It seemed like Martin had a specific story to tell in Game of Thrones, which would end up being part of a larger narrative. By Clash of Kings he's already focused on the end game and doesn't want to give too much away. That leads to boring filler.

There's something about these books, though. I found Martin's writting to be overly descriptive and boring at times yet I couldn't put it down. Is this how people are with Twilight? The POV aspect helps since you get a break between characters and that makes you want to know more. And this works much better in a book than a TV show. However, I'd be super frustrated if I had to wait years for the next installment after reading this one. I bought Storm of Swords the other day but I want to see if I can hold out another year because it's fun to watch the show not knowing what's going to happen. There's other stuff to read in the meantime.

[Raistlin]

You are not the only person to point that out. The series is overall good and worth reading, but to me it's far from the fantasy masterpiece that so many claim it is. And if you thought A Clash of Kings was boring filler, just wait for A Feast for Crows. The book wasn't even supposed to exist until Martin realized he needed some filler for the gap in his planned story after a Storm of Swords. I still haven't even read A Dance with Dragons because I just could not care after reading AFFC and the resulting half-decade wait. But I'll probably get around to it eventually.

I will say that A Storm of Swords is better, and contains some of the action that was put into the second season of the show that you didn't see in A Clash of Kings. But overall, you may be starting to appreciate why I think the show is legitimately better than the books.

[Jinx]

I was seriously reading the series up until about a week ago. I got to DoD and I just wikied and read the plot. It's so long, and I was starting to get bored. There's a lot of conversation about things that should happen, but no actual happening.

However, Arya's plot is reeeeally cool and fascinating.

[Del Murder]

I thought there might a time lapse at some point in the series. You need time for obviously important characters like Bran and Arya to get older, and Dany's dragons need to grow to the point where they can actually do some damage. It will be interesting to see how they approach this in the show.

[Jinx]

Except Bran and Arya don't really get older in the books--like 2 years pass from GoT to DoD. Also, Dany's dragons grow super fast.

Edit: Their bigger problem will be the actors getting older and still playing a younger role.

[The Man]

I thought there might a time lapse at some point in the series. You need time for obviously important characters like Bran and Arya to get older, and Dany's dragons need to grow to the point where they can actually do some damage. It will be interesting to see how they approach this in the show.

Originally, Martin planned for five years to elapse between A Storm of Swords and A Feast for Crows. He later found this not to work, so it was eliminated. This is the main reason AFFC took him so long to write. It also means that many of the characters are much younger than they act, and it is the primary reason the characters were aged up for the TV series (the other being that it would have been pretty much impossible to film nude scenes for some of them at their younger ages).

AFFC and ADWD drag at times, but as far as world-building goes, they're arguably the strongest entries in the series. You get to experience what it's actually like to live on Westeros and Essos better than at any point in the past, which is probably exactly why some people don't like them - it's not a very pleasant atmosphere. The pacing of the plot does suffer, however, and this is a fair criticism, but it's fairly obvious they weren't intended to be another A Storm of Swords - they are setting up events that have yet to happen, which is one of the main reasons so many new characters have been introduced.

[Cuchulainn]

You are not the only person to point that out. The series is overall good and worth reading, but to me it's far from the fantasy masterpiece that so many claim it is. And if you thought A Clash of Kings was boring filler, just wait for A Feast for Crows. The book wasn't even supposed to exist until Martin realized he needed some filler for the gap in his planned story after a Storm of Swords. I still haven't even read A Dance with Dragons because I just could not care after reading AFFC and the resulting half-decade wait. But I'll probably get around to it eventually.

I will say that A Storm of Swords is better, and contains some of the action that was put into the second season of the show that you didn't see in A Clash of Kings. But overall, you may be starting to appreciate why I think the show is legitimately better than the books.

I genuinely thought a Dance With Dragons was a return to form. Nothing on the third book but definately the 3rd best yet. I'd give it a read mate.

[Bolivar]

I genuinely thought a Dance With Dragons was a return to form. Nothing on the third book but definately the 3rd best yet. I'd give it a read mate.

I disagree slightly. I thought the writing itself was cranked up more to 11, but Danaerys' chapters were horrible, and Feast and Dance have the same problem - dividing installments geographically undermines one of the strongest aspects of ASoIaF. You spend a few chapters with the sneaking and conniving of King's Landing and then get treated to this exotic cityscape you've never seen before with some incredibly colorful characters. Or you spend time travelling in a bleak wasteland and then you get treated to a little political intrigue. A spoonfull of sugar makes the medicine go down, but in these books it's like trying to shove rock salt down your throat.

Still, I agree with The Man, that there's better world building here than you'll find anywhere else. The backstory with the Great Bastards, The Blackfyre Pretenders, the strange curious Elephants of Volantis, and Lord Rickard Stark's "Southron Ambitions," the settings almost never been more interesting. And there is great buildup, but there's not enough climaxes to justify it being its own installment.

So I solved that on my current re-read by putting them together, but in a unique way. I went with Martin's original vision, with the Dornish and Iron Islands chapters in an extended prologue. It flows and makes you care about the characters more because they're not just distractions from the main characters - there's real crazy ish going down here and you digest the progression of the stories better and makes their twists that much more powerful. My rule was to take their later chapters, along with any other character who's chapter name begins with "The" (except for arya and theon) and put them in the intermission for events that happen in the middle (Shield Islands, Quentyn's enlistment, Asha's capture, Aegon's introduction to GC) or at the end (the meereenese knot). So that way I have two near-full books to enjoy the cast of "main" characters that we all know and love. It restores the pacing and actually makes the story a really powerful, really sad aftermath of the horrible things that happen in A Storm of Swords.


It was basically 900 pages of setup.

I've always enjoyed Clash of Kings more than other people seemed to have, and this is one of the reasons. I thought a lot of stuff happened. The Battle on the Blackwater, the Battle of the Fords, the rise and fall of Renly's claim, the descent of Theon, and Tyrion's time to shine. I think Davos being one of my favorite characters might make me biased, but after the lack of climaxes in the last two books, it makes Clash of Kings look far more fast than it really is, I suppose.


But overall, you may be starting to appreciate why I think the show is legitimately better than the books.

I'm finishing up the second half of season 2, but it better get better like everyone says it does, or this statement is sadistically iconoclastic on so many levels.

[Shlup]

I just finished reading Clash of Kings. I now understand why not much happened in the show. In 900 pages you would expect much of significance to happen but it really didn't. In fact, many of the more memorable moments this season such as Arya & Tywin's banter, Cat letting Jamie go, Jamie & Briene's adventures, the zombies marching on the Night's Watch camp were not in this book. It was basically 900 pages of setup. And the ending was very underwhelming. Unlike Game of Thrones, where the individual storylines were more confined to that book and the ending had one of the biggest 'oh smurf' moments of the entire series. It seemed like Martin had a specific story to tell in Game of Thrones, which would end up being part of a larger narrative. By Clash of Kings he's already focused on the end game and doesn't want to give too much away. That leads to boring filler.

There's something about these books, though. I found Martin's writting to be overly descriptive and boring at times yet I couldn't put it down. Is this how people are with Twilight? The POV aspect helps since you get a break between characters and that makes you want to know more. And this works much better in a book than a TV show. However, I'd be super frustrated if I had to wait years for the next installment after reading this one. I bought Storm of Swords the other day but I want to see if I can hold out another year because it's fun to watch the show not knowing what's going to happen. There's other stuff to read in the meantime.
I like the super-descriptiveness. The only times I get bored is when he introduces a brand new POV character. I eventually get into their stories, but for a good while I'm irritated that I'm not reading about someone I already like.

Storm of Swords is the best book, I think. Clash of Kings is definitely all build-up, but things happen in Storm of Swords.


And if you thought A Clash of Kings was boring filler, just wait for A Feast for Crows. The book wasn't even supposed to exist until Martin realized he needed some filler for the gap in his planned story after a Storm of Swords. I still haven't even read A Dance with Dragons because I just could not care after reading AFFC and the resulting half-decade wait. But I'll probably get around to it eventually.
I loved A Feast for Crows. Many people seem to feel it's the worst book, but I enjoyed it very much.

It's not that GRRM wrote it as filler, it's that AFFC and ADWD were supposed to be one book, but at about 1400 pages he realized he needed to split them into two. Rather than split them chronologically, he split them by character. So AFFC is missing some favorites, but those characters go through the same period of time again in ADWD, which is a little boring, but it was still interesting to see what they were up two. When the two books meet back up at around page 750 in ADWD, then things get notably more interesting.

I do tend to refrain from recommending the books to a few of my friends, though, because I don't think they'd appreciate the amount of detail. I do. I read the family trees in the back!


I thought there might a time lapse at some point in the series. You need time for obviously important characters like Bran and Arya to get older, and Dany's dragons need to grow to the point where they can actually do some damage. It will be interesting to see how they approach this in the show.
Yeah, GRRM has admitted that it was a bad move not to make the kids all start older, since that time jump didn't work out. It does make it easier to deal with Dany in ADWD, though, as she's definitely a teenage girl.

[Bunny]

Season three casting announced! - WinterIsComing.net (http://winteriscoming.net/2012/07/season-three-casting-announced/#more-19314)

[Rantz]

Not a whole lot of faces I recognise (Mackenzie Crook is the only one I really know), but going by looks alone they all look like good picks to me!

[Jinx]

I love the kid who plays Jojen!

Also, the girl who was casted as Shireen. That's...uh...got to make you feel good about yourself.

[NorthernChaosGod]

I pictured Thoros of Myr being a fatter man.

[Jinx]

I pictured Thoros of Myr being a fatter man.

I pictured him more brown....like you. <33333

[NorthernChaosGod]

I pictured Thoros of Myr being a fatter man.

I pictured him more brown....like you. <33333

As long as you also didn't picture him fatter. <3

[Jinx]

I pictured Thoros of Myr being a fatter man.

I pictured him more brown....like you. <33333

As long as you also didn't picture him fatter. <3

I pictured him trim like you. ;D

[NorthernChaosGod]

I pictured Thoros of Myr being a fatter man.

I pictured him more brown....like you. <33333

As long as you also didn't picture him fatter. <3

I pictured him trim like you. ;D
You're so sweet. ;]

Now what did you mean about the girl playing Shireen? o_O

[Jinx]

In the book they talk about how ugly she is.

[NorthernChaosGod]

I actually forgot about that. *shrug* Maybe they'll make her ugly?

[Bunny]

Probably because he's fat when first introduced. He gets skinny when he's with the BWB though.

[NorthernChaosGod]

I completely forgot that then. Overall I think the casting looks great. I can't wait until the new season. :excited:

[Bunny]

In the book they talk about how ugly she is.

I remember last season when they announced the casting of Brienne and people were up in arms about how ugly she wasn't.

I think they did a pretty good job with her.

[Shlup]

That is actually the exact kid I pictured as Jojen when I read the books. Badass.

[Jinx]

In the book they talk about how ugly she is.

I remember last season when they announced the casting of Brienne and people were up in arms about how ugly she wasn't.

I think they did a pretty good job with her.

I don't think Brienne in the show was ugly. They just toned down her makeup to make her look "plain."

The woman who plays her is actually really beautiful.

[Del Murder]

Well of course they're going to make her TV ugly, not ugly ugly.

[Freya]

Emmy noms have been announced. Only dinklage got a nom. And no noms for visuals for blackwater.




Outstanding Drama Series
Supporting Actor (Drama): Peter Dinklage
Art Direction (Single camera): Garden of Bones, The Ghost of Harrenhal, A Man Without Honor
Casting: Nina Gold and Robert Stearne
Costumes (Series): The Prince of Winterfell
Hairstyling (Single camera): The Old Gods and the New
Non-Prosthetic Makeup (Single camera): The Old Gods and the New
Prosthetic Makeup (Series): Valar Morghulis
Sound Editing (Series): Blackwater
Sound Mixing (Series): Blackwater
Special Visual Effects: Valar Morghulis
Creative Achievement in Interactive Media: Game of Thrones Season Two – Enhanced Digital Experience

[Del Murder]

I would argue Tyrion was the lead role last season, but but he may have a better chance of winning supporting. Hard to beat Bryan Cranson these days.

[Shlup]

Poor Alfie totally should've been nominated. Peter was great again, of course. Maybe next season for Alfie.

[Jinx]

Who is Alfie?

[Shlup]

Theon.

[Mahad]

when do they start second season? also, did the first season leave too much stuff out? like, major stuff? I've only seen the hbo series, haven't actually read any of the books and have never heard of them until i watched this series.

[The Man]

The second season is already over; it started running on April 1. The third season will start on March 31, 2013.

I haven't finished watching the second season yet (the episodes are still on my TiVo) but the first season didn't leave too much out, though there were a number of minor characters who weren't introduced and a number of other characters who appeared in the first book but were left out until the second season. Nonetheless, it should be possible to follow without having read the books.

[Freya]

Alfie deserved the nom but nope, that can't happen. If you saw the other noms, why does there need to be 5 noms in comedy for Modern Family x.x They also completely snubbed The Walking Dead. I'm glad Sherlock got some noms at least. But I'm really surprised that huge explosion of black water didn't get anything, or director for that one or ANYTHING for that episode. The emmys are a joke with their noms. The walking dead is THE most watched cable show, they broke records last year with ratings.

[Del Murder]

They also completely snubbed The Walking Dead.
lol

[Freya]

:colbert:

[Shlup]

No, he's right, that was a silly thing to say.

Also, the Blackwater explosion doesn't need an Emmy. It's too good for an Emmy.

[Cuchulainn]

I passed them filming the 3rd season today n thought it was a tad early, dont think they started until autumn here for season two.

[Jinx]

I passed them filming the 3rd season today n thought it was a tad early, dont think they started until autumn here for season two.

Okay, that's seriously cool, though.

[Shlup]

They started in July for season 2 as well.

[Cuchulainn]

I'm not positive but i think we have Ramsay Snow casted. He was on set today but he's cast as 'Boy'. It may be an attempt to cover up though.

Fellas name is Iwan Rheon

36651

[Slothy]

:colbert:

Don't worry Freya. I've got your back.

[Rantz]

Hey, an actor I know! :D Iwan Rheon was fantastic in Misfits. I can definitely see him as Ramsay, let's hope that's the case!

[Jinx]

Ooh, that second picture of the new Ramsay Snow is hoooooawt.

[NorthernChaosGod]

Hey, an actor I know! :D Iwan Rheon was fantastic in Misfits. I can definitely see him as Ramsay, let's hope that's the case!

Well now I don't even care that he won't be in Misfits anymore. :D

[Cuchulainn]

36652

THis is the picture that started thew rumours in Lavery's in Belfast with Jaime, Brienne & Theon. He has been cast as the role of 'Boy', I can onmly assmue they're following the book slightly as Ramsay has an equally clandestine introduction in the books.

Btw if you're ever in Belfast you should head to that bar Lavery's, i've crawled out of it many times. Some of you should visit for a pissup.

[Mahad]

does any one know when the second season comes out on dvd? I dont ever remember seen it on stores.

[Bunny]

Probably early March or late February, about a month before the third season airs.

[Jinx]

36652

THis is the picture that started thew rumours in Lavery's in Belfast with Jaime, Brienne & Theon. He has been cast as the role of 'Boy', I can onmly assmue they're following the book slightly as Ramsay has an equally clandestine introduction in the books.

Btw if you're ever in Belfast you should head to that bar Lavery's, i've crawled out of it many times. Some of you should visit for a pissup.

I love in this picture Gwen is looking at the camera doing like a, "Heyo!"

[Madame Adequate]

Where's Lavery's at Cuch? Might take a look next time I'm home.

[Cuchulainn]

Shaftsbury Square mate.

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Lavery's+Bar,+Belfast,+Belfast&hl=en&ll=54.588993,-5.934699&spn=0.000012,0.016512&sll=54.589018,-5.934427&layer=c&cid=13253176171203580580&cbp=13,141.6,,0,2.4&cbll=54.589183,-5.934543&hq=Lavery's+Bar,+Belfast,+Belfast&t=h&z=17&panoid=jOsCShUDbjfYhQlux8UzTQ

[Madame Adequate]

Oh aye, I know where thon is! Literally right around the corner from that Sushi place Jess and I went to. Thanks for that, might roll in there with Steph if we visit!

[Cuchulainn]

Mance Rayder has been cast. Ciaran Hinds

36795

[Quindiana Jones]

Fuck. Yes. Ciaran Hinds. Fuck. Yes.

[Bunny]

Ed Skrein is playing Daario.
Jacbo Anderson is playing Grey Worm.
Dan Hildebrand is playing Kraznys.
Ramon Tikaram is playing Prendahl.

[Cuchulainn]

I know he's a very minor character but I'd love Harwin to be cast. When Arya & him met dor the first time since he was set off with Donfarrion it was one of the few genuinely uplifting moments on the book.

I doubt he will though, the cast is already heavy. Not optimistic about many of the Brotherhood, maybe a promoted extra will get a line for Lem or Tom or Jackbelucky.

Is there any mention of Vargo? I wanna hear his lisp

[Bunny]

The only mention I know of for casting Vargo was back in May when they posted an audition video of Ned Dennehey. It's Private Video on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/42772034) - the password is ned. Other than that, no clue, but they have a habit of releasing casting slowly so who knows.

[Shlup]

I pictured Mance as more of a ladykiller, but that guy looks cool anyway.

Is it April yet?

[Quindiana Jones]

I pictured Mance as someone who effortlessly radiated power and confidence. Hinds is pretty much perfect for me. I would cast him as every authoritative figure in every show. My god, I love that man.

[The Man]

vsmUpYIA99o
Actual footage is coming during the Boardwalk Empire finale, apparently, according to Martin's Not a Blog.

Anyone even remotely familiar with the books knows that some truly badass trout is about to go down over the next two seasons. Brace yourselves.

[Shlup]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsncrwcCvL1qcddlw.gif

I pewp'd.

[The Man]

2yj0e0r_yLI

[Freya]

Damnit, I came here to post that xD

[Shlup]

This is one of the few times I'll allow myself to have exceedingly high expectations for something.

[McLovin']

Holy mother fuck. More crazy than the last 2 seasons? My anticipation for season 3 has just sky rocketed.

[Bunny]

Arrrrrgggghhhh

If the world ends before this airs I'm going to shit fire all over Satan.

[Shlup]

Holy mother fuck. More crazy than the last 2 seasons? My anticipation for season 3 has just sky rocketed.

Yes. Be excited. I'll be really surprised if it's even possible for this season to be overhyped. I'm pumped!

Oh wait, it's still December? Fuck.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

Glad to hear the show is doing the books justice. Sometimes that's really hard to accomplish with a series like GoT.

[Rantz]

Anyone know if the RW is gonna be in season 3?

[The Man]

They haven't said. It was about two-thirds of the way into the book though so probably not.

[Bunny]

Martin will probably write the episode that has the RW in it, I can't think of a reason why he wouldn't. In season three, his episode is called "Autumn Storms" which doesn't really sound like the title of an episode with that kind of massacre. I'm trying to recall what other big events happen in SoS but can only think of the RW and Joffrey's death, which would make for a good ending to both seasons respectively. I guess they could end with Dany's massacre and the beginnings of her massive army, and then put the RW and Joffrey's death in the same season (which would just be insanely awesome) but who knows.

[The Man]

When they split the book into two volumes for the British market, they closed on Jon leaving the wildlings, which is almost exactly halfway through the book. That's a bit of an anticlimax though so they'll probably use a bigger event to close with. I can't think what that would be though. The last few chapters of SoS contained Joffrey's death, Lysa's death, and the revelation that undead Catelyn has been hanging Freys. So I would imagine those would close out the season.

[Cuchulainn]

STANNHIS BARATHEON: He shall not click agree until he has fully read the terms and conditions.

[Lonely Paper Star]

About the episode Martin wrote and RW:

I read somewhere that he wrote the Queenscrown episode, because he was too heartbroken or whatever to write RW. But RW will be this season toward the end (ep 9?). Just speculating based on other speculating sources, lol.

Anyway,

is it weird that I have a girlcrush on Meera Reed? She just exhudes a lot of coolness to me.

[Jinx]

Maybe this season we'll get to see Robb's penis. :monster:

[Bunny]

Maybe this season we'll get to see Robb's penis. :monster:

The best I can do is Theon.

[Lonely Paper Star]

I'm forever amused by Hodor. I don't know why. I guess because he's Bran's pokemon.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mds0h22eGY1rdsll7o1_500.png

[The Man]

Hodor hodor hodor, a "haiku" by Hodor

Hodor hodor hodor hodor. Hodor
Hodor hodor hodor hodor hodor. Hodor hodor
Hodor? Hodor! Hodor hodor hodor.

(yes I'm aware it doesn't scan correctly, that's the problem with making haiku out of the same two-syllable word repeated over and over)

[Freya]

BEER! Yup that's right! Game of Thrones is getting it's own ale! (http://winteriscoming.net/2012/12/game-of-thrones-to-get-an-official-beer/)The first to come out is going to be the Iron Throne Blonde Ale right in time for the beginning of season 3. A joffery beer? Of course THAT'S first.

Oh also! Each episode will be a few minutes longer to basically equal out to a extra episode by the end (http://winteriscoming.net/2012/12/s3-episodes-to-be-longer-on-average/), with the last one hopefully being almost a half hour longer!

Also have a new making of!

f3y5aCWFuKo

[Jinx]

I would like a mouthful of Robb

I uh

Mean his beer

[NorthernChaosGod]

Yeah, I'm going to buy that shit.

[Lonely Paper Star]

I'm more of a wine person, and considering how much wine they drink in the books/show, I hope to see a GoT branded one someday...

[Ouch!]

I know this is mostly about the show, but for those interested, a new sample chapter went up on Martin's site. It's another Arianne chapter. (http://georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html)

[Shlup]

I can't bring myself to read these. They make me feel too needy.

[chionos]

Haha, same here. BUT

I read them anyway.

btw, the man:

Hold the Door, a haiku by the man who showed up the man

Hodor Hodor Ho-
dor Hodor Hodor Hodor?
Hodor Hodor Ho!


Because Hodor would make an awesome Thundercat.

[Freya]

TEASER TEASER TEASER RAINS OF CASTAMERE TEAAASSSE

RN7e_Oo0Bis

[Shlup]

That was terrible. Other than the song, of course. People need to learn early and often to live in fear of that song.

[Ouch!]

The premise of the trailer wasn't exactly inspiring, but damn do I get excited hearing that song and knowing what's coming.